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Old 03-29-2010, 11:29 PM
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327 rebuild

aloha everyone

let me start off by letting everyone know my problem! first off i tried setting #1 cylinder to top dead center on my 1968 327 sbc engine sitting on a jeep chassis, then tried adjusting the hydraulic lifters in sequence, then installed the distributor pointing to #1 cylinder, when i tried to start the engine it just turns and once every so often it blow black smoke out of the carbs. do i have a timing issue or carb issue? am i missing something?

the motor been sitting for about 2 years with a new holley carb,new msd blaster2 coil, new msd 6al, new msd billet distributor installed by the person i bought the from.

mahalo
len jr

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Old 03-29-2010, 11:43 PM
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Sounds like you have the distributor in pointed 180 out of time. Remember the TDC for each cylinder comes up twice per every single distributor rotation - once firing the cylinder and once expelling exhaust in the 4-stroke cycle. You probably put the distributor in with #1 at TDC exhaust and not TDC firing. explained well enough??

If the distibutor is correct then it sounds like you have the rocker arms adjusted too tight.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:54 PM
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looks like your right, will try tommorrow. whats the best way to find tdc? i read alot of thread but can 't seem to find it. some guys say stick a screwdriver in the spark plug hole but how do i know if its on the exhaust or intake stroke? as you can see i'm new to all this : (

as we say in hawaii ALOHA and MAHALO!!!!!!
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:22 PM
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With the #1 plug out, put your finger or thumb over the plug hole so you can feel the air pressure, then roll(bump roll) the engine over. As the piston comes up toward TDC firing(compression) it will blow your finger off the hole. Then carefully turn crank the last bit to line up the timing mark on the balancer, then drop the distributor in pointing at #1 wire on the cap.
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:53 PM
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or leave dist in and then when u do that u can see if its off then pull it out and reset dist,i usually pull the driver valve cover to and check to see if the valves are close for number 1
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
With the #1 plug out, put your finger or thumb over the plug hole so you can feel the air pressure, then roll(bump roll) the engine over. As the piston comes up toward TDC firing(compression) it will blow your finger off the hole. Then carefully turn crank the last bit to line up the timing mark on the balancer, then drop the distributor in pointing at #1 wire on the cap.
You can ccheck your rocker arm pre adjustment in a similar fashion by doing the thumb over the spark plug hole while cranking over the engine with all spark plugs removed. If the valves are adjusted properly you will see strong compression in all cylinders. if a valve is adjusted too tight that cylinder will have weak compression as the valve is keeped open from too much rocker preload.
Reset the rockers using the up-down feel on the pushrod, not spinning the push rod to find the 0 lash point. Then add the preload adjustment.

Intake just closes (closed)----set the exhaust valve on that cylinder.
exhaust just starts opening---set the intake.
repeat as nessessary.
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:14 AM
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hi guys

just got done re-adjusting the rocker to zero lash using the up and down movement,

then i think (thought) i found tdc, align the dizzy

tried to fire the engine up with no success : ( when i crank the engine instead of backfiring from the carbs like it used to it backfire from the exhaust, am i still 180 off on the dizzy? or?

as you guys can see i'm no mechanic!

in hawaii we call people like me brokanic, lol
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Old 04-01-2010, 02:46 AM
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Alright, I'm going to explain this to you in a VERY elementary fashion. Don't take offense. You need to understand this and get it right.

Remove spark plugs.
Remove valve covers.
Remove distributor.
Standing at the front of the motor, at the water pump and looking toward the rear of the motor, #1 cylinder will be on your right, the first one, just behind the radiator. The next one to the rear will be #3, then #5, then #7 will be the last one on the driver's side, next to the firewall. Looking on the other side of the motor, the passenger side, the front cylinder will be #2, the next one to the rear will be #4, then #6, then #8 all the way to the rear against the firewall. Do whatever you have to do to get this all fixed in your mind. If you have to make a diagram on a large piece of paper and sit it against the carburetor, then do it. Knowing which cylinder is which cannot be over-stated.

Also, knowing which way the crankshaft turns and which way the distributor rotor turns cannot be over-stated. As you are standing at the water pump, the crankshaft turns clockwise, the same way the hands on an analog watch or clock turn.

If you were to climb up on top of the motor from the front and look directly down on the distributor with the cap off, you would see the rotor turning clockwise also. See this cute little animation.....
http://www.boxwrench.net/specs/chevy_sb.htm

With a socket and long bar with a ratchet attached to the bolt head that holds the harmonic damper onto the front of the crankshaft, turn the crank clockwise while a friend holds his thumb over the #1 spark plug hole. Using the starter for this operation WILL NOT WORK. When your friend feels air pressure beginning to build under his thumb, that means that both valves are closed and the piston is coming up on the compression stroke of #1 cylinder. Watch the harmonic damper and you will see the notch that is cut into the outer ring of the damper come up to the top. When that notch is at the top, STOP. You are now at approximately top dead center on #1 cylinder. It doesn't have to be EXACTLY at top dead center to adjust the valves.

Make a mark on the harmonic damper ring so that you can reference this TDC position again later. Either use a yellow crayon like they use at the tire store or a piece of tape placed at that position or whatever your mind can come up with. Make the mark at the top of the harmonic balancer inertia ring. We are going to refer to this position as NORTH, because if you got down on your knees and looked at the harmonic damper from straight on, like you were looking straight through the centerline of the crank, this would be the NORTH position.

Loosen both adjusting nuts on both rockers on #1 cylinder until the rockers are loose on the studs. Have your friend hold his finger on the tip of one of them so that he is pinching the rocker arm down onto the tip of the valve, holding it tightly. Now, you grasp the pushrod for the rocker he is holding down and jiggle the pushrod up and down while using a socket wrench to slowly tighten down the adjusting nut until all the slack is removed and you cannot move the pushrod up or down any longer. Be delicate here. This is not a strong-armed operation. You are simply taking all the slack out of the pushrod and getting the rocker adjusting nut very slightly tightened down against the trunnion of the rocker arm. Now, make 1/4 turn more on the adjusting nut.....1/4 turn.....90 degrees......OK, that valve is done. Now, move over to the other valve on #1 cylinder and repeat the operation.

You may have heard that you can rotate the pushrod with your thumb and forefinger until the pushrod gets tight and use that for adjusting the valves. While that may work for someone who builds motors day in and day out for a living, it WILL NOT WORK for someone like you who has no way of knowing how much resistance he should be feeling for. Jiggling the pushrod up and down is BULLETPROOF and can be done successfully by even a first-time builder.

Now, you have both valves adjusted on #1 cylinder. With the socket and ratchet on the harmonic damper retaining bolt head at the crank, turn the crankshaft 1/4 turn clockwise. That will mean that the mark you made on the damper ring will move clockwise from NORTH to EAST.....STOP. Make another mark on the damper ring at the straight-up position. Now, you will have a mark at EAST and a mark at NORTH.

You have moved the crank 90 degrees and into the next cylinder's firing range. There are 720 degrees in a full cycle to fire all 8 cylinders, so turning the crank 90 degrees at a time will allow us to adjust the valves on all 8 cylinders with just 2 full turns of the crank. If you knew that a small block Chevy's firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, then you would know that it is #8's turn to fire. Go to #8 and loosen both adjusting nuts, just like you did on #1. Have your buddy hold the rocker down against the valve stem while you jiggle the pushrod up and down to remove all play, all the while slowly turning the adjusting nut to remove the play. When all the play is removed, tighten the nut another 1/4 turn. Move on to the other valve on #8 and do the same.

Now, you have adjusted the valves on cylinders 1 and 8. Put the socket on the crank nut and turn the crank 1/4 turn to the right (clockwise, just like before). Place a mark at the top of the inertia ring like you did last time. This mark will be at NORTH. The mark you had at EAST will move to SOUTH and the one you had at NORTH will move to EAST. Following the firing order, we will now go to cylinder #4 and adjust both valves. Then we will move the crank 1/4 turn and make another mark and do cylinder #3. Then we will move another 1/4 turn (the crank has marks for each 1/4 turn now) and do cylinder #6. Then we will move the crank another 1/4 turn and do cylinder #5. Then we will move the crank another 1/4 turn and do cylinder #7. Then we will turn the crank another 1/4 turn and do cylinder #2. Then we will turn the crank another 1/4 turn and be back to firing on #1, where we will stab the distributor and install the retaining clamp and bolt. We will leave it a little loose so we can rotate the distributor housing. You may have to use a long screwdriver to line up the slot in the distributor driveshaft as you look down into the hole where the distributor goes.

As if we were standing on the motor and looking down on it, we will want to point the rotor tab at #1 cylinder, approximately 5:30 O'Clock if you look at a clock face. Position the distributor housing so that you can twist it both ways without the vacuum advance can hitting on the intake manifold. Replace valve covers. Replace spark plugs. Using your longest spark plug wire, plug it into the 5:30 position on the cap, co-inciding with the tab on the rotor at 5:30 and run the other end of the wire to #1 spark plug. The longest wires will be for #1 and #2. The next longest wires will be for #3 and #4. Next longest for #5 and #6. The shortest wires will be for #7 and #8. Going around the cap in a clockwise manner, the next hole in the cap will take the wire for #8 spark plug, then #4, then #3, then #6, then #5, then #7, then #2.

Now, depending on where the timing tab is on your motor (there were 3 different positions used), you might have to rotate the distributor housing a little one way or the other to get the motor to fire off, but unless I miss my guess, SHE WILL FIRE OFF THIS TIME. Have a timing light affixed to the #1 spark plug wire, adjust timing and lock the distributor down.

A little more info about the different timing positions. Like I said, there are 3 different ones. If you were to stand up over the motor and look down on the harmonic damper, there is a 12:00 Noon position, a 2:00 O'Clock position and a 2:30 O'Clock position. Through the years, the timing tabs and front covers get mixed up on these motors, so you really should find top dead center and use the proper mark on your harmonic damper to line up with the timing tab on your front cover. Here is the procedure for doing this with the motor assembled that I wrote for the Crankshaft Coalition Wiki....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center

Last edited by techinspector1; 04-01-2010 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:17 AM
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If you are unsure about the distributor being in phase, at this point of the operation TI is explaining-
Quote:
With a socket and long bar with a ratchet attached to the bolt head that holds the harmonic damper onto the front of the crankshaft, turn the crank clockwise while a friend holds his thumb over the #1 spark plug hole. Using the starter for this operation WILL NOT WORK. When your friend feels air pressure beginning to build under his thumb, that means that both valves are closed and the piston is coming up on the compression stroke of #1 cylinder. Watch the harmonic damper and you will see the notch that is cut into the outer ring of the damper come up to the top. When that notch is at the top, STOP. You are now at approximately top dead center on #1 cylinder. It doesn't have to be EXACTLY at top dead center to adjust the valves.
the rotor should be pointing at the terminal for cylinder #1- if you rotate the engine enough so that the mark on the damper and the timing tab is around 10 degrees BTDC.

If you don't have a dial back timing light, and you want to tune the advance curve, it's easy to MAKE A TIMING TAPE.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:08 PM
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all i can say is WOW!!!! thanks for that really defined info!!!! can't wait till i get home after work and start working on my engine using the very well explained to detail on how to adjust lifters and distributor position.

thank s alot

will keep you guys updated

aloha and mahalo!!!!
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:29 PM
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thanks guys!

i was sick so couldn't get to do my project till last night.....and low and behold it started up on the first crank...damm i was so excited!!!!!!

thanks alot for helping a total stranger out i really appreciate all replys exscpecially TECHENGINE 1 your reply was so detailed it was to the "T"

can't thanks all you guys enough.

hau'oli hotrodding
len jr
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