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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2012, 06:37 PM
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350///357 build

What are you afraid of? There is not that much to it. All you have to take apart is the short block. Is your motor on an engine stand? If it is roll it over with the crank up. Look at the main bearing caps to see if they are numbered. 1-5. If not buy an engraver and start at the front and mark each cap. Take a picture when done. Now check the rods to see if they are numbered for each cylinder. To keep from getting mixed up use a marker and number each cylinder on the outside of the block. If the rods are not numbered start with #1 cylinder engrave 1 on the rod and the cap on the side facing #1 cylinder. Do the rest the same. Take a picture when your done. To start disassembly turn the crank to bring up #1 & #2 pistons. Remove the nuts. Tap on the side of the #1 cap and wiggle it until it comes off. You will need a piece of 3/4 dowel rod about 12"-15" long. You will also need some 3/8 rubber hose. Cut 2 pieces long enough to cover the rod bolts. Use a hammer and the piece of dowel rod and knock the piston from the bore. Watch the rod to make sure you do not scratch the cylinder wall. Once the piston is out bolt the cap to the rod with the bearings in them. Do the other seven the same. When your done take a picture. Now if the oil pump is on the motor remove it now. Get a gallon size baggie to keep the oil pump and bolt in. Take a picture before and after removing the oil pump. Next remove all the main bearing caps and set aside. Remove crank shaft. Take a picture before and after removal. Stand the crank on the flexplate end in the corner of your bench or someplace it will not get knocked over. Bolt the main bearing caps back to the block. Keep the bearing in place. Do not mix up. Take the crank and # 1,2 7,8 pistons and the block to the machine shop. Get it milled whatever it takes to get to get a .040 quench. IMO I would take the least amount of metal off. There are .015 gaskets that can be used. Also Cometic make gaskets starting with .027. GM has a .028 head gasket I think. Figure the compression ratio you want to have. If you mill it to .010 and use a .030 head gasket your compression will be 10.218 and 8.390. STOP BUY the PISTONS that will give you a 9.5 compression ratio. KB142 D-Cup 18cc will give you 9.525 static compression ratio. Compression ht. is 1.561. Zero deck the block and get a set of Fel-Pro .040 gaskets. Do the decision making before milling. When you get it back get a repair manual. It will have all the information to install the crankshaft and pistons back in the engine. You will need a torque wrench and some plastic gauge to install the crank. The torque specs are in the manual too. If you can't find them do a internet search.

Last edited by cdminter59; 12-25-2012 at 07:01 PM.
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2012, 02:44 PM
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Went to the machine shop today and talked to the guy. He got in his book and said that with the pistons .025 in the hole I would be at 9:7 compression with a 58cc head. He doesent believe me about the pistons being .038 in the hole. He wants me to bring the block up there tomorrow morning so he can measure with his dial caliper. We will see what happens but man im still nervous about tearing the thing apart. Not only because of the labor but because It would be so hard to not change parts and that gets me into more money. I was perfectly on my pre-determined 3000 budget for the entire build. Decking the block only costs 100 bucks if I can handle tearing it down and not digging too deep into my pockets for upgrades. I know my pistons suck and I would like a steel crank but probably arp bolts would be the only thing I do..
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 0trbo4myCHEVUICK View Post
Went to the machine shop today and talked to the guy. He got in his book and said that with the pistons .025 in the hole I would be at 9:7 compression with a 58cc head. He doesent believe me about the pistons being .038 in the hole. He wants me to bring the block up there tomorrow morning so he can measure with his dial caliper. We will see what happens but man im still nervous about tearing the thing apart. Not only because of the labor but because It would be so hard to not change parts and that gets me into more money. I was perfectly on my pre-determined 3000 budget for the entire build. Decking the block only costs 100 bucks if I can handle tearing it down and not digging too deep into my pockets for upgrades. I know my pistons suck and I would like a steel crank but probably arp bolts would be the only thing I do..
If I was in the shoes of your machinist, I might doubt those numbers, too.

The reason is the deck from the factory is supposed to be 9.025", give or take a thou or two. Rebuilder pistons are 0.020" 'shorter' in compression height (deeper in the hole) than stock production pistons.

So he's expecting to see either 0.025" in the hole- uncut deck and stock compression height pistons,

OR,

0.045" in the hole- uncut deck and rebuilder pistons (0.025" deck plus 0.020 compression height difference).

BUT! It's entirely possible to be exactly what you say it is. One way to end up at 0.038" in the hole is rebuilder pistons and the deck cut about 0.007". You can look at the deck and tell if it's been machined other than by the factory. One clue is if the suffix code is very shallow or missing altogether- if the block was decked 0.007", the suffix would definitely show it.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:27 AM
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Well, kids, this is another example of doing your parts matching and engine math waaaaaaaaay before a single part is ever bought.
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 12:50 PM
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With arp rod bolts and proper compression your block is done. Dont upgrade the crank because you think it will break. Think of all the stuff you habe seen foolish ppl do to there cars and how many cranks have actually broken.

The sbc will take a hell of a lot of abuse. Dont spend it if you dont need to. Best to leave it stock unless your going to upgrade the entire rotating assembly. You cant just toss in a steel crank the entire rotating assebly will need to be rebalanced. Also rods fail before the crank will let go. If not going 383 let the machine shop return it to spec.

Also did you clean the head gaskets before you checked the deck height. Usally a block is decked in round numbers. .010 .015
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 04:28 PM
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This motor isent far from working. The machinest and I both feel like this is going to be a solid pump gas sbc. I know upgrades would require re balancing and I don't want to deal with that. Sure I messed up thinking milling the cylinder head would help quench. It's not like the in the hole measurement caught me off guard though. I knew they were too far down when I bought it. I still feel good about this combo. Even if I end up 200 over budget for decking and arp bolts
.
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 04:30 PM
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Head gaskets were not involved in my measurements.
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 0trbo4myCHEVUICK View Post
This motor isent far from working. The machinest and I both feel like this is going to be a solid pump gas sbc. I know upgrades would require re balancing and I don't want to deal with that. Sure I messed up thinking milling the cylinder head would help quench. It's not like the in the hole measurement caught me off guard though. I knew they were too far down when I bought it. I still feel good about this combo. Even if I end up 200 over budget for decking and arp bolts
.
Look at it this way race teams are commonly 200k over budget. 200 bucks is nothing budget is very hard to keep when building an engine. Without starting from new you never know what the machine work is going to cost. So 200 bucks to make it right is pretty good. I am currently 1500 over budget on my junk yard motor that had perfect bores. So i would be dancing at 200. LOL

Glad to hear its coming together. The most expensive words you can say at the machinest are "might as well".
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 05:26 PM
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350///357 build

Man, I am tired of this wishy, washy back and forth. Do what you said you wanted to do. You didn't want to spend but $3000 right. Take the block to the machinist and let him check it out. You were going to get a Scat rotating assembly. It is a cast steel crank good to about 700 HP. Ask when purchasing the kit if they are using SCAT 2-ICR6000 PRO STOCK I BEAM CONNECTING RODS. They are 4340 forged steel. There are 4 different I-beam rods. The Pro Stock is the only 1 that is stroker clearanced. If you want them stronger upgrade to L19 or Arp 2000 rod bolts. Get the kit from CNC Motorsports their price is better and shipping is cheaper than Summit Racing. Call them on the phone to make sure you get the correct parts that you want.

Last edited by cdminter59; 12-27-2012 at 05:52 PM.
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:35 PM
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Man, I am tired of this wishy, washy back and forth. Do what you said you wanted to do. You didn't want to spend but $3000 right. Take the block to the machinist and let him check it out. You were going to get a Scat rotating assembly. It is a cast steel crank good to about 700 HP. Ask when purchasing the kit if they are using SCAT 2-ICR6000 PRO STOCK I BEAM CONNECTING RODS. They are 4340 forged steel. There are 4 different I-beam rods. The Pro Stock is the only 1 that is stroker clearanced. If you want them stronger upgrade to L19 or Arp 2000 rod bolts. Get the kit from CNC Motorsports their price is better and shipping is cheaper than Summit Racing. Call them on the phone to make sure you get the correct parts that you want.
Was this meant for someone else? 3000 is my budget but I nvr said anything about scat kits. I just want to get arp rod bolts
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:47 PM
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Look at it this way race teams are commonly 200k over budget. 200 bucks is nothing budget is very hard to keep when building an engine. Without starting from new you never know what the machine work is going to cost. So 200 bucks to make it right is pretty good. I am currently 1500 over budget on my junk yard motor that had perfect bores. So i would be dancing at 200. LOL

Glad to hear its coming together. The most expensive words you can say at the machinest are "might as well".
Yeah 200 over budget is a lot better off than I thought I'd be but it ain't over yet lol. It's the labor that scares me. Hopefully if i mark everything it will go right back together like a glove. :/ yeah right.
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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:02 PM
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Yeah 200 over budget is a lot better off than I thought I'd be but it ain't over yet lol. It's the labor that scares me. Hopefully if i mark everything it will go right back together like a glove. :/ yeah right.
Either it fits like a glove or its broken and your putting it in wrong. You shouldnt have any problems putting it together. Tools can be an issue. But they can also be borrowed.

Be sure to get the cam timed right.

Everything should be a light tap in and covered with assembly lube. A little oil can go a lomg way as well. Also be sre to fill the filter with oil so it gets oil as soon as it starts.

At some point all builds run out of money and you have to beg borrow or steal to get it finished. Best to start being cheap early. Lol
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2012, 08:45 PM
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Either it fits like a glove or its broken and your putting it in wrong. You shouldnt have any problems putting it together. Tools can be an issue. But they can also be borrowed.

Be sure to get the cam timed right.

Everything should be a light tap in and covered with assembly lube. A little oil can go a lomg way as well. Also be sre to fill the filter with oil so it gets oil as soon as it starts.

At some point all builds run out of money and you have to beg borrow or steal to get it finished. Best to start being cheap early. Lol
Haha right on. I went cheap where I could but I did spend over 1200 on valve train alone : I
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:14 AM
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I kind of see red when guys include the word budget and a hot rod engine build.

I coined a term.It's called a "open book build".

No budgets/no time limits.You collect the parts over as long as it takes when the funds are available.Then total when done what it cost.

Now if you budget yourself in a pile of trash parts,that isn't hot rodding.Where hot rodding is building the best.

So if you don't think your going to have the money or are not doing a "open book build"-

WELL THEN GO BOWLING.A BALL AND SHOES IS ALL YOU NEED.WALK AWAY FROM HOT RODDING AND DON'T LOOK BACK!!.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:55 AM
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I kind of see red when guys include the word budget and a hot rod engine build.

I coined a term.It's called a "open book build".

No budgets/no time limits.You collect the parts over as long as it takes when the funds are available.Then total when done what it cost.

Now if you budget yourself in a pile of trash parts,that isn't hot rodding.Where hot rodding is building the best.

So if you don't think your going to have the money or are not doing a "open book build"-

WELL THEN GO BOWLING.A BALL AND SHOES IS ALL YOU NEED.WALK AWAY FROM HOT RODDING AND DON'T LOOK BACK!!.
Um.....ok? Cause that kinda sounds like open check book build....some of us have mortgages, kids, wife's, and yet we still wanna play....so our junk should sit in pieces while we save to buy the best parts? Hey....wanna guess what happens next? Nothing....thats what, and the hobby looses out...because eventually we grow weary of staring at a bunch of expensive garage art that never gets completed cause real life got in the way. So how about buying what you can afford, building what your able, fixing as required, and actually getting out there and enjoying your junk as often as you can.....course what do I know, I actually used a set of.....gasp.....305 heads on my last build....ohh....and may even toss a blower on my mostly stock, completely unknown SBC I have now....but hey, tell you what, while I'm out abusing my junk, and loving every second of it, you can show us all pics of your shiny afr heads, and forged parts, and latest big dollar whiz bang speed parts all piled nicely on your bench waiting to come to life.....253am....still bored....and mildly irratated now....
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