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Old 04-24-2005, 10:41 PM
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350 or 400 sbc

I just started a build up of a 4th gen camaro, parted out the lt1/6 speed transmission, bought a built th400, and i'm debating on whether to go with a 350 or 400 block. I'm lookin for 10.50's or lower on motor and 9.50's on spray.

If I go the 350 block route, i'm thinking a forged/billet 383 would get me there, but would spending a little extra and going with a sbc400 be easier to hit my mark in the long run? What the max cubes I can go without having to put a LOT of extra work into it?

Thanks, by the way, this forum is awesome...

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Old 04-24-2005, 10:52 PM
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This has been gove over lots of times...
If both blocks are in good condition go with the 400.
The more cubes the better and since the weight diff. between the two is nill.
The 383 crank may mean you have to have clearanced rods and grind the oil pan rail. So in my mind it is more work to build a 383.
Since you would just make the 350 a 383 why not start out with the bigger 400 to begin with and if you want you can stroke that too...

Just my view

Chris
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Old 04-24-2005, 10:55 PM
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ok yea, i just found that 1000 page post about 383 vs 400...

All i've found at the last two swap meets are 350 blocks... no 400's. Guess I'll keep looking.

Oh, will the 400 block hold a 1000hp without much problem?
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Old 04-24-2005, 11:06 PM
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Ah ok I didn't know you didn't have both blocks...
If you can find a good 400 block then use that if the price is right. One thing I have always tried to get across is that it is getting harder for people to find 400 blocks at least where I live and the 383 is becoming a better and better idea.
The way I look at it is this... if you can't get a 400 and you have a 350 or can get a great condition block (perf. roller cammed) the build on it.
Unless you ran in a drag or race calss that limits CI the 383 is the beast deal.
I look at why build a 350 when you can for almost the same price you can build a 383 that will gain you TQ and low end power which in my eyes is what most street cars want. If you can do some of the work yourself you can save money.

Chris
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:16 AM
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If you plan on making 1000 horses, I hope your rich. You`ll need a aftermarket block to make that kind of power and have some reliability, a stock block won`t hold up to that kind of power level, and you`ll be hard pressed making it with 400 cubes unless you plan on running a 500 horse Fogger system on it. You`ll need to have the TH400 beefed, as well as a rear end that will withstand it. after what you`ll have to invest in a small block to make 1000 horses plus keep it held together on spray, it would be wiser to just go with a big block.
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:23 AM
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DV is correct I didn't see the making it into the 9's parts.
That being the case either have a really lite car oor get yourself an aftermarket block or big block better yet get all 3. Then I hope you have enough money to do the rest of the car steering braking and safety. That 4th gen is a uni body correct? which means tons of work to strengthen the body or a 9 sec. engine will do quick work in twisting it in half. Got room for slicks? Yeah... why not build a car/engine to run slightly higher times lets say in the 12 sec. range before trying 9's... that is of course unless your loaded in which case for go it!

Chris
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Old 04-25-2005, 08:03 AM
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I already ran 12.50's on motor and 11.40's on spray with the factory 2 bolt main lt1 block. Just had 4.10's, nitto drag radials, 224/230 112lsa cam, spec stage 3 clutch, and a 125 wet shot. Dyno'd 440rwhp/590ft-lbs on the juice, 335rwhp/350ft-lbs NA.

I figured with a forged crank, billet rods, forged pistons, and a good set of heads, with a direct port 400ish n2o setup would get me the power as long as I had enough cubes.

I went 9.80's on my bike, I want 9's in my car
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Old 04-25-2005, 01:48 PM
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Your not really catching the whole picture here. You keep adding things in.
A 400 block can make great power and can handle it for that matter. General note is that the 2 bolts converted to splayed 4 bolts are the strongest...
Point is that you can build a motor that can take a car to 9 sec but you also want all those expensive parts to hold together. If you are going to be giving it the juice to get there then you have to re think your attack.

I would think about aftermarket block stay in small block size since the aftermarket can take huge stokes and bores already... Then you can use your forged parts and with the correct set up for juice you can still a huge shot in it time and time again and it will last for you.
What I mean by this is if you get the parts together to take a car to 9sec on nitrous the std. block IMO will not hold out... and all that expensive will get wrapped around the inside...


Another point... 9 sec on a bike and in a car are two diffrent worlds.

You car will have to be set up to make 9 sec passes... Here is a good thing to do go to a real drag strip and watch the cars that can make a solid 9 sec pass... then look at their cars maybe talk to them and you'll find out just how much work they had to do to set up the suspension and handling not to mention weight and money...

Your looking at all new rear end
New suspension parts all around
New brakes to stop the beast
Weight saving (back seats out new fiber glass hood,)
Prob. going to have to remove glass for safety reasons
Full roll cage that must pass inspection (cha ching)
Transmission that can handle power of engine
Not having a very friendly street car...

It's not that it can't be done but there is more to it then just building an engine and slappin it in. It is very possible to build the car your looking for time and money play a big role however time we have money is another story...You could very well be able to build a 9 sec CAR but car is a general term that means the car as a whole not just an engine and driver...

Chris

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Old 04-25-2005, 05:18 PM
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I just build a third Gen F-body ;

This is approx $$$ to build a car like this (almost only powerplant part) ;

Engine race prepped 410 Ci (motown Block) = 15,000$ca
Rear End Moser 33 Spline/3.73/Wilwood disk brake = 3000$US
Race prepped/ bullet proof Transmiss. 4L80/Compushift = 4500$US
Al kind of suspension, tork arm, Qa1 shock,
panhard bar, Front coil Over, Tubular A-arm / Sub Frame connector
etc = 2000$US
Fuel pump, fan , Alum. radiator etc.. = 1000$US
Gage & fitting, hose etc.. = 2000$
Tire/mag = 1500$US
Procharger F1 Supercharger / Intercooler / Surge valve = 4500$US

Does i have omited someting

Lot of money to build a Fast car like this !
And i'm very conservative about the price...

Here mine : www.techbull.com/transam
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Old 04-25-2005, 06:36 PM
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striking: I have 3 daily drivers, and my z28 is just going to be a track car, I have no desire to put it back together as just another 11 second street car. If I did, I woulda left it well enough alone, I could already blow the doors off of the 2004 and older z06's, with the n2o of course.

I'm only a part time engineer, I'm still in school for another semester. Once december hits, it's on, I start my new job! Right now I'm just trying to figure out what I need, and collecting all the cheap stuff I can.

I called down at the machine shop, and they want $318.50 after tax to install splayed billet mains on a 2 bolt block, so maybe I'll just sacrifice a little and do this, and not spray as much n2o? Either way, I won't be able to afford the block work or the aftermarket block until December.

As far as the chassis goes, I'm working on that the most right now, weight savings mainly, cause a lot of that is free, besides the tubular k-member I want to get from BMR. I'd say I've lost a good 400lbs out of it so far. I'd imagine I'm around 3000lbs with me in it now. That's about as light as I think I can get it without making it look much uglier.

Suspension won't be cheap, but between now and december, anything I find for cheap, I'll just add it to the growing stash.

Rear end wise, either a 12bolt or 9", preferably used... 4.56's, 28" tall tire, under the impression that I'm going to be able to spin to 7000rpms safely, should put me trapping 15x @ 7000rpm. I can't afford one of these till December, but I'm gonna keep hitting the swap meets until then hoping to find the deal of a lifetime.

I hope I didn't sound like a dumb-arse when I asked if the sbc blocks would take 1000hp, I don't want to be 'that guy' who is talking like he wants to make 1000hp but really is 16 and rides a huffy because he can't pass his driving test.



x007: NICE RIDE!!!!
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Old 04-25-2005, 08:42 PM
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Hey no problem young gun,
It's just that we have seen so many of "those guys" and when you started adding the spray in there that came to mind lol.
It looks like you have a good handle on this one thing you do have that is nice is being able to drive other cars while working on your car which is perfect since you won't really be taking this car you want to build on the street.
What I would suggest doing is this... since this will be a strip only car find out what all the drag stip rules are incase there are an limits as to what can go into the engine. Then if you do want to use the spray and make huge amounts of power from season to season think about that aftermarket block. When building a race engine it can be a very good investment. Reason being that you are going to put say 3000+ in the engine (heads, intake, carb, cooling, cam, oiling, pistons, crank, rods, ya get the idea) it would be a good idea to protect that investment.
Not everyone things so but when you start adding spray in and it being used at the strip every weekend I think it becomes a better and better idea.

The parts in the engine will have to all work together since it will only be for strip use you can match parts up that may not be streetable but will really kick on the strip.
If you ask around here some guys have really great strip cars built up and wouldn't mind sharing what they have done.

Chris
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