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Old 12-03-2006, 08:07 PM
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350 Build.. Im sure there are plenty of threads on this... but this is specific!!

Hello all! I am brand new to this site and also brand new to hotrods... I have always loved and wanted one, but this is my first build. I have a 1950 Chevy pickup that I tore down to the ground and built back up. Right now I am ready to build my engine and want to make the most of what I already have. I want to keep my budget under 2000 bucks on top of what I already have and make OVER 400 streetable, reliable horsepower.
Right now my block has new crankbearings, and the bottom end is completely balanced with Federal Mogul flattop pistons +.020. The bottom end is going to get tanked and reassembled but Im not planning on changing anything else. (unless someone has a good suggestion!!) On top I currently have 3973487 heads they are 350 (1.94, 1.5) or (2.02, 1.6), and a completely stock valve train. I also already have an Edelbrock Performer Intake, and Edelbrock 650 carb. Finally 1 3/8 long tube headers.

On this engine reliability, streetability, and pump gas is a must! I have powerbrakes, A/C.. and want to be able to take this truck on road trips! I also don't want to get TOO carried away on compression. I don't want to push the envelope there, soo around 10.0-1 or less?? I am trying to make the most with the parts I have, and only replace or upgrade what will make more power! Thanks in advance for all ideas, suggestions and help!
Also I would like to start building as early as next week so I will be putting these ideas to good use very soon!
Thanks again!

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THE HEADS I HAVE ARE CONSIDERED ANGLED OR STRAIGHT PLUGS??

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Last edited by artillerystevens; 12-04-2006 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 12-03-2006, 08:42 PM
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With your budget and the parts you are listing, (as mostly stock), you cannot get anywere close to 400hp. You "may" get close to 250-275 IF you get some good suggestions on cam and pistons that will match your parts. Others will hopefully make those suggestions based on their building history and experience. With stock heads, you are very limited to the power you want to achieve. All the cam in the world and high compression pistons mean nothing if the engine can't breathe.
To get to the 400hp range, you will need some high dollar good flowing heads and about $3000-$4000 to make it happen.

2 years ago, I built my 355 for my truck and spent about $2200. My machinist took a "good guess" at close to 300hp with all things considered.
Here is what all I did.

Mark

Last edited by Jmark; 12-03-2006 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 12-03-2006, 09:34 PM
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With 487 heads (@ 76cc) and flattop pistons, you're not anywhere near 10:1. Probably closer to 8.5:1.

Also, I hope you meant 1 5/8" primaries on the headers.
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Old 12-03-2006, 09:54 PM
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Ok, a couple of corrections... thanks for catching the header mistake, it is 1 5/8. As far as my budget, I agree that you can't build an engine from scratch for 1000 bucks anywhere near 400hp. However I do have a solid bottom end to start with and understand that the first thing to do would be a head swap down to an aftermarket 64cc or so, maybe even decking the block? I was hoping to find a good head, cam and valvetrain combo to put together to pull off the HP I was lookin for. As for 1000 bucks, I can budget up to 4k for the engine. I just want to try to pull this off on the cheap. Thanks for the comments.. any combination suggestions guys??
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Old 12-03-2006, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artillerystevens
Ok, a couple of corrections... thanks for catching the header mistake, it is 1 5/8. As far as my budget, I agree that you can't build an engine from scratch for 1000 bucks anywhere near 400hp. However I do have a solid bottom end to start with and understand that the first thing to do would be a head swap down to an aftermarket 64cc or so, maybe even decking the block? I was hoping to find a good head, cam and valvetrain combo to put together to pull off the HP I was lookin for. As for 1000 bucks, I can budget up to 4k for the engine. I just want to try to pull this off on the cheap. Thanks for the comments.. any combination suggestions guys??

Recently one of the mag-rags did a 9/1 350 crate that did 447 hp with Engine Quest Vortecs 9/1 compression and the standard stuff all for $ 3500.

First I would acid dip that block and heads to get all the rust out of the water jackets. Think cooling.

You could do well with 202/160 valves and a mild bowl port in your existing heads. Make sure the guides will take the lift. CompCams XE 262h hydraulic flat tappet will keep you in the street range. 300 # springs max. will give you street reliability without resorting to HD pushrods. Replacement 1.6 rockers will be OK, or roller tip Comps if you want. 1.7 ratio adds to lift. You could try your existing manifold, but an Edel RPM will up you a little with little low end loss.

If you are going to cruise this thing at 2000 rpm, then the straight Performer intake and a 600 vac sec or Edel. air valve secondary is best for cruising. A Quadrajet is excellent carb, the small primaries make excellent cruising. HEI ignition is mandatory.

If you are going to press your stock iron heads to upper 9s compression consider the head grooving being discussed on this forum. It works to prevent detonation at any compression.

You will get about 375 crankshaft hp at 5200 rpm and have a great torque curve that will make your back feel real good when you hit the go pedal. Cruising at 2000 rpm you will probably get 18+ mpg. Think OD if possible.
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Old 12-03-2006, 11:31 PM
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I already have my trans and rearend.. I searched and searched for a 4 spd but, in the end I got a rock solid turbo350 with 2000# stall pretty cheap through a local shop. Also have a 3.73 rear end, but it is open diff so Im going to switch to a posi. I could keep the same ratio or drop to 3.5 or less just to help RPMs on the highway. Right now I haven't made a decision on anything... Hoping to have my mind made up on everything next week
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Old 12-04-2006, 12:55 PM
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I have a 355 that should make about 420 HP or so and it real streetable.
With the old bigger cam, it ran the 1/8th in 8.9 at 89 MPH in a 48 Ford pickup. And that was spinning through 1st and second on 18" street tires. But alas, the cam was huge (actually bigger than it need to be for best torque and HP) and A/C in the vehicle did not work real well around town. I changed the cam - it runs much better aroudn town and I don't think it lost more than 10 HP on top.

The recipe:
*Dart Iron eagle 200cc head, 2.02, 1.60 valves, bowls blended mild porting by engine builder. Look on eBay for assembled versions and also in mags. I think they can be had for 800-900 a pair. I believe them to be better than vortecs. Plus you can use the "regular" small block intakes. BTW, Dart has new platinum ( I think that's the name- check with Dart) heads that are even better than the Iron Eagle- they were designed with the new "wet-flow" technology.

*Flat tops for a 10.5:1 compression. It runs on 91 I promise as long as you use the right cam to lower the DCR to acceptable levels.
*Intake is a performer RPM - availbe on eBay for cheap most of the time. Air gap costs more, but perhaps not worth the extra.
*Cam - [This is the new cam] Crane Cams energizer 284, with .480 lift (I think) and 228 deg. at .050", 112 LSA, installed on 107 ICL ( 5 deg. adv., which is how the cam is ground). BIg enough to sound pretty good, small enough to make killer torque all around. DCR is about 8.0 IIRC.
*Timing and fueling to match motor, 36 deg. max. timing, blah blah.
*Carb. - currently using a 670 Avenger that works great.
* Tuned with LM-1 wideband to run at 17:1 to about 15:1 at cruise for good gas mileage, then swing to 12.5 at WOT.

Can cruise in OD easily at around 1400 RPM

Deck the block to 0 like you mentioned. It will tighten your quench to the thickness of the head gasket, which is probably .038". A quench of this dimension will help in detonation prevention.

You do need to be a little careful with the timing and vacuum advance on this motor, though. It doesn't need or liek a lot of vacuum advance. A Crane Cams adjustable vacuum advance unit will do the job quite nicely - and it makes it easier to get it dialed in properly.

have fun
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:43 PM
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SDPC Vortec heads $450 or so
Comp XE274 cam
Performer RPM intake
Any 650-700 cfm carb will do.
Compression should be around 10:1 depending on your pistons. Should make around 400hp or so

Or you could go with the Edelbrock Performer Rpm package(Heads, cam, intake), Makes 420hp or so on a 10:1 bottom end. A little more expensive than a set of Vortecs, but just a thought.
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:49 PM
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Look Here : http://ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html

Vortecs will et you to 400hp the cheapest and easiest

stock 76cc head combos, lots of these are 383s there are 350 76cc head combos too



Displacement: 383 cu. in.
Carburetor: Holley 750 double pumper
Heads: GM #441 castings, 76cc chambers, 2.02/1.60 in. valves, pocket ported
Intake: Edelbrock Victor Jr.
Camshaft: Comp Cams 280? Magnum hydraulic, with 280/280? of duration, 230/230? of duration @ 0.050 in. lift,and 0.480/0.480 in. lift
Rockers: 1.5:1
Headers: 1 5/8 in. street
Pistons: TRW forged
Rods: 5.565 in.
Crank: cast
Comp. Ratio: 9.3:1

MAX HP: 400 @ 5700
MAX Torque: 403 @ 4500 and 5000

Displacement: 383 cu. in.
Carburetor: Holley 750 double pumper
Heads: GM #441 castings, 76cc chambers, 2.02/1.60 in. valves, pocket ported
Intake: Edelbrock Performer
Camshaft: Comp Cams 292? Magnum hydraulic, with 292/292? of duration, 244/244? of duration @ 0.050 in. lift, and 0.501/0.501 in. lift
Rockers: 1.5:1
Headers: 1 5/8 in. street
Pistons: TRW forged
Rods: 5.565 in.
Crank: cast
Comp. Ratio: 9.3:1

MAX HP: 399 @ 5700
MAX Torque: 399 @ 5000 and 5500


Displacement: 383 cu. in.
Carburetor: Holley 750 double pumper
Heads: GM #441 castings, 76cc chambers, 2.02/1.60 in. valves, pocket ported
Intake: Edelbrock Performer
Camshaft: Comp Cams 280? Magnum hydraulic, with 280/280? of duration, 230/230? of duration @ 0.050 in. lift, and 0.480/0.480 in. lift
Rockers: 1.5:1
Headers: 1 5/8 in. street
Pistons: TRW forged
Rods: 5.565 in.
Crank: cast
Comp. Ratio: 9.3:1

MAX HP: 382 @ 5300
MAX Torque: 400 @ 4500




Displacement: 357 cu. in.
Carburetor: Holley 600
Heads: GM, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves, 76 cc combustion chambers, and a 3-angle valve job.
Intake: Edelbrock Performer
Camshaft: Elgin hydraulic, with 0.488 in. of lift
Rockers: Elgin
Headers: 1 7/8 in.
Pistons: Powerhouse
Rods: stock
Crank: cast
Distributor: HEI with MSD
Timing: 36?
Comp. Ratio: 9.7:1

MAX HP: 360 @ 5000
MAX Torque: 394 @ 4500




vortec combos

Displacement: 355 cu. in.
Carburetor: Speed Demon 750 with mechanical secondaries
Heads: GM L31 Vortec
Intake: GMPP Vortec dual-plane
Camshaft: GMPP HOT hydraulic roller, with 0.525/0.525 in. of lift and 218?/228? of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift.
Exhaust: Hooker 1 5/8 in. headers with Flowmaster 2 1/2 mufflers
Pistons: stock
Rods: stock
Crank: GM
Ignition: Stinger electronic with MSD 6
Timing: 34?
Comp. Ratio: 9.75:1

MAX HP: 412 @ 5600
MAX Torque: 423 @ 4400


Displacement: 355 cu. in.
Carburetor: Speed Demon 750 and a 1 1/2 in. spacer
Heads: GM L31 Vortec
Intake: Edelbrock Super Victor single plane
Camshaft: GMPP HOT hydraulic roller, with 0.525/0.525 in. of lift and 218?/228? of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift.
Exhaust: Hooker 1 5/8 in. headers with Flowmaster 2 1/2 mufflers
Pistons: stock
Rods: stock
Crank: GM
Ignition: Stinger electronic with MSD 6
Timing: 32?
Comp. Ratio: 9.75:1

MAX HP: 422 @ 5700
MAX Torque: 418 @ 5000


Displacement: 350 cu. in.
Carburetor: Holley 750 double-pumper
Heads: GM L31 Vortecs, pocket-ported, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
Camshaft: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268 hydraulic, with 0.478/0.480 in. of lift and 224/230? of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift.
Exhaust: Hedman 1 5/8 in. headers and Borla XR-1 mufflers
Distributor: HEI
Comp. Ratio: 9.4:1

MAX HP: 409 @ 6000
MAX Torque: 427 @ 3500



Displacement: 350 cu. in.
Carburetor: Demon 750
Heads: GM L31 Vortec, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves
Intake: Edelbrock Super Victor Vortec
Camshaft: GM steel roller, with 0.474/0.510 in. of lift.
Rockers: GM stamped steel, 1.5:1
Exhaust: Hooker headers and 3-chamber Flowmaster mufflers
Pistons: GM
Rods: GM forged
Crank: GM
Distributor: HEI
Timing: 32?
Comp. Ratio: 9.5?10.0:1

MAX HP: 376 @ 5600
MAX Torque: 380 @ 4700 (approximate from a graph)


Displacement: 355 cu. in.
Carburetor: Demon Road Demon 625
Heads: GM L31 Vortecs, with 1.94/1.50 in. valves
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
Camshaft: Comp Cams Xtreme Energy 268? hydraulic, with 268/280? of duration, 224/230? of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift and 0.477/0.480 in. of lift.(Corrected valve lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.508/0.512 in.)
Rockers: Comp Cams roller, 1.6:1
Headers: Hedman Elite 1 5/8 in.
Pistons: Speed Pro dished
Rods: stock
Crank: Scat
Distributor: Pertronix HEI
Timing: 36?
Comp. Ratio: 8.75:1

MAX HP: 390 @ 6000
MAX Torque: 426 @ 4000

Displacement: 350 cu. in.
Carburetor: Holley 750
Heads: GM L31 Vortecs
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
Camshaft: Federal Mogul, with 214/224? of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift and 0.472/0.496 in. of lift.(Corrected valve lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.503/0.529 in.)
Rockers: roller, 1.6:1
Headers: Hooker 1 5/8 in.
Pistons: Speed Pro forged
Rods: Federal Mogul
Crank: Federal Mogul
Distributor: HEI
Comp. Ratio: 10.6:1

MAX HP: 375 @ 5400
MAX Torque: 413 @ 4300


Displacement: 350 cu. in.
Carburetor: Holley 750
Heads: GM L31 Vortecs
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM Vortec
Camshaft: Federal Mogul, with 224/224? of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift and 0.480/0.491 in. of lift.(Corrected valve lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.512/0.524 in.)
Rockers: roller, 1.6:1
Headers: Hooker 1 5/8 in.
Pistons: Speed Pro forged
Rods: Federal Mogul
Crank: Federal Mogul
Distributor: HEI
Comp. Ratio: 10.6:1

MAX HP: 364 @ 5900
MAX Torque: 384 @ 4400









Mustangsaly
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:27 PM
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Thanks for all of the great suggestions guys! Now time to make a decision!!!
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:34 PM
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...

Heres an idea... apply for a Summit Speed Card and buy the Edelbrock Performer RPM package.... Heads, cam, intake, the whole deal. With 9:1 Comp. it makes 420 Horsepower. All parts match and its a proven combination, not to mention with a speed card if you spend over $500 you have one year interest free to pay it off...you of course have to make a minimum payment. The package is around $1500, but divide that by 12 and you can set up your own pay schedule...your payments are only around $125 per month. So.. you will still have a little money for X-mas and instead of a few thousand spent now, its only a $125 for the next 12 months. Im not advertising or anything, but I have a speed card and love it because I can now easily afford parts that I would have had to save for... and not piss off the GIF.

Regards,
-J
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