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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Most junk yard engines will at least need an overbore. Best to get it done right. A larger overbore will require new pistons and rings but will allow the engine to seal up properly and run as expected. As i said previously i do not recommend any work on the crank as a new one is very cheap and since its the same cost for the 383 crank as stock and you already need pistons a 383 is a smart choice and cost very little these days.

Use stock rods and arp bolts. They will be fine. Try to go new with everything else. The cost is not too high for new stock replacement parts and it will be all new.

I recommend this because alot of ppl build there first engine thinking it wont last and it runs like a top for years. Its not a hard rebuild and will easily last. It best not to build thinking it fail. Take all the steps to make sure it is right and it will run great. Chevy is very forgiving. I have seen big mistakes run for a long time. Just read as much info as posssible. Also check youtube for videos of other ppl doing the same thing.

When you install the engine, oil pressure and temp guages get hooked up before the fuel lines. Just an fyi that many first time builders forget to do. Dont trun the key without knowing it has oil pressure. Prime the engine with the proper tool. Make sure your plug wires are in the correct order and distributor is facing the correct direction. So it will start up quickly and also make sure you have gas to the carb. Once it fires You can turn the distribuer a little to get it to run smooth enough for the cam breakin.

Read the cam break in proceedures in the wiki and follow all the manufactures instructions and enjoy! It will run great.
I do agree that if the money is there to have it bored and new pistons etc, then by all means do that. That being said the OP used a budget of 1000$ to 1500$ and I'm not sure where your from, so I may be way of base, but being a good old Canadian boy there is zero chance your going to put together any 383 in that budget when you factor in machining etc, or even a 30 over motor for that matter, unless your friends with a machine shop its just not going to happen.
I was going bang for the buck, I call my motor a grenade because I reused head bolts, stock pushrods, stock rockers, pressed in studs, etc, but I also beat my junk mercilessly. So I'm not going to cry when it eats itself, it will be self imposed I'm sure. But someone screwing together a combo like mine, on the OP's budget, is going to be pleasently surprised by the outcome. I have right around 800$ in my motor, its not the fastest car I have driven, but I would be willing to bet my left nut it will run 13:50's as it sits now, and with a 3500 converter come spring, and a plate kit I hope to take it to bottom 12's.....
Is that fast? Not really.....but for 8 bills, in Canada no less, its real real respectable. The OP hasn't built a motor before, and I'm going on the assumption (maybe wrongly) that he has never owned a 13 or even 14 second car. So a motor like mine, and not pounded constantly, would give him a huge sense of pride, and feel like a rocket ship, and likely live a long healthy life......just my humble opinion right or wrong...
Dave

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Old 10-21-2012, 03:49 PM
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I might have missed it ,but I didn't read where anyone had mentioned to the OP about the tools needed to build an engine. Here's a link for an intermediate builders tools.Intermediate Engine Building - Popular Hot Rodding Magazine
You don't have to buy all these for a budget build, but some are going to be needed. IMO you'll need to buy or borrow a 1/2" torque wrench, balancer installer, oil priming tool, ring compressor, and feeler gauges(ring/spark plug gap).
You said you were going to port the heads, so you'll need a valve spring compressor to remove/install the valves. You'll need a valve spring mic, or a set of dial/digital calipers to install new springs/shims for spring installed height verification. I recomend the dial/digital calipers as you can use them for alot of other measures like piston in the hole depth for figuring compression.
Instead of a set of micrometers/bore gauge to measure crankjournals/main & rod bearing ID, you can get some kind of idea about clearances using Plastigauge, but its not the right way to check for journal/bearing runout IMO.
You'll need a gasket scraper, and a set of engine brushes to clean-up used parts.
You'll need a degree wheel, and a dial gauge/magnetic base to verify the cam install/specs. Or do like alot guys do and just install it and keep you fingers crossed.(bad idea IMO)
You'll need a timing light, vacuum gauge, & tachometer to tune it for best performance, or at least I do.
I'm not saying you have to buy all of these, but IMO you'll need to use most all of them if you want do do the job with any kind of peice of mind.
As far as 400hp IMO you'd be happier with more of a torque engine producing around 325-350hp on the street.
For 325-350hp with ported vortec heads, I'd recommend a max 9.0:1CR, a Comp Cams HE260 cam(212 deg @ 0.050") with matching springs, an Edelbrock Performer intake, and a 600cfm Holley vacuum secondary carb. You'll get to keep a stock stall trans convertor, and have great throttle responce from idle to about 5200rpm. Might be able to run 87 octane gas if quench is tight.
For 400hp with ported vortec heads, I'd recommend at 9.5:1CR, at least a Comp Cam 270 Magnum cam with matching springs(see comp catalog), an Edelbrock RPM intake, a 750cfm vacuum secondary carb, and a 2400rpm or higher stall convertor.
You didn't say what kind of car, trans, or rear gears your using, so I'm guessing its around 3200lbs, with an auto trans, and stock gears.
FWIW
ssmonty

Last edited by ssmonty; 10-21-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:01 PM
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I agree with all of the above, which is why I keep pounding the same drum....stock bottom end, honed, re- ringed, and reassembled at the machine shop. I borrowed a compressor and die grinder, bought the moroso head porting kit, and then spent days reading, then some more reading, the a couple of video's, then i bought a 6" carbide cutting stone, and spent the time..not money. Then i borrowed a torque wrench...when I was done with the 416 heads, I had the machine shop reassemble because i don't have the required tools to do so at home. Its going to come down to budget, and when just starting out, it can scare the hell out of you trying to buy everything everyone tells you you need, then buying the "right" parts, and realizing your way out to lunch on your budget and have to scrap the project.....how many times is the machine left holding half completed motors for this reason.....? Lots.....cause the guy that decided it was to daunting and too expensive, is now driving a clapped out civic with an eBay Turbo kit and we have lost them forever lol....
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:09 PM
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I got a torque wrench for about 15 bucks off the net. Spring compressor is about 6 bucks same for feeler guages. Hopefully he has a few friends to borrow some tools from.

As far as the machine shop you will need to be specific that you just wanted bored to next good overbore. Cost is an issue.

Here is a 383 and engine rebuild kit complete and balanced ready to drop in for $999
SB Chevy Balanced 383 Stroker Engine Kit 2pc Rear Seal New Crank Pistons Rods | eBay

Thats pretty close to being everything you need. Now i do understand that there are always costs to installing a new engine. That does not mean it cant be done cheap.
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
I agree with all of the above, which is why I keep pounding the same drum....stock bottom end, honed, re- ringed, and reassembled at the machine shop. I borrowed a compressor and die grinder, bought the moroso head porting kit, and then spent days reading, then some more reading, the a couple of video's, then i bought a 6" carbide cutting stone, and spent the time..not money. Then i borrowed a torque wrench...when I was done with the 416 heads, I had the machine shop reassemble because i don't have the required tools to do so at home. Its going to come down to budget, and when just starting out, it can scare the hell out of you trying to buy everything everyone tells you you need, then buying the "right" parts, and realizing your way out to lunch on your budget and have to scrap the project.....how many times is the machine left holding half completed motors for this reason.....? Lots.....cause the guy that decided it was to daunting and too expensive, is now driving a clapped out civic with an eBay Turbo kit and we have lost them forever lol....
Agreed but you cant just hone a beat block it will run really bad if at all. Now if its in good shape but most arent. If its got 50k miles on it its going to need a bore for sure no way around it. Taking it apart and honing it will make it burn oil and have poor compression. It would be better if you just left it together at that point.

Best to buy a kit take it apart and find out if it has oversized bearings in it. Then order everything at once from the same shop. The last one really helps.
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Agreed but you cant just hone a beat block it will run really bad if at all. Now if its in good shape but most arent. If its got 50k miles on it its going to need a bore for sure no way around it. Taking it apart and honing it will make it burn oil and have poor compression. It would be better if you just left it together at that point.

Best to buy a kit take it apart and find out if it has oversized bearings in it. Then order everything at once from the same shop. The last one really helps.
Maybe I have been lucky, I just know that I personally have thrown parts at 2 stone stock short blocks, one with 60000 miles on it, and been exteremly happy with the performance, and this summer screwed together a 400 that had been sitting a long time, and had some pretty high mileage on it, that got a hone, bearings and rings, and vortec heads and a big lumpy cam and works real real well....did a 350 a month ago that the pistons looked like ***, so we grabbed a set from under my "parts I may need someday" bench and honed the block, and reassembled, that one didn't even get bearings as everything looked good and we were curious....it got Chinese alum heads, a big cam, and a victor Jr, 750 dp and went 12.02 in an 84 camaro....with serious traction issues. Will any of it live long? Not likely....but I bet in a weekend toy, or even a DD used with a bit of respect, a couple of fun seasons isn't out of the question while you save for better parts...and more importantly, he learned something, and had the budget to follow through on the build....and trust me, once it fires, and runs, and sounds like it should, the sense of pride alone will keep him in our camp, and once hooked.....he will want to go faster....and then can save, have a bigger budget the next time around.....like I say, its just one guys opinion....and I drive a lumpy vette pulled out of a field....so wadda I know lol....
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:24 PM
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Most of the old blocks i see have a .020 lip at the top of the cylinder. Do you put the next size up pistons or file to fit rings? You can take a cylinder to the next over bore with a hone its just easy to make a mistake. Seems to me the hole is already too big dont see how making bigger is going to fix that unless you are going to the next sized piston.

Cylinder hone takes some skill. Going to the next overbore with a hone is not a way to save bucks. Its not something you can do the first time you hold a hone in your hand. Also its a usless skill even machine shops use computerized hones with atleast digital readout if not full cnc.

Better to have a good long block and a two barrel cast manifold and stock exhuast manifolds then to have a crap block that cant be fixed inside the car. Got to spend your bucks where they can help and always upgrade later for cheap when your buddy gets a new intake. Either way if its got a cylinder lip its got to be bored out and new pistons at the very least. Best to build it to live because it will. Even if you do a really bad job of rebuilding it.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:47 PM
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The biggest problems with junk yard ring jobs is they might smoke a little and have blow by.They wont make as much power as a good sealing engine,might foul plugs,thats about it.Keep the oil topped upand drive it.They are no more likely to scatter than a new stock engine.

On the plus side an old engine thats loose and gets a longer duration cam can rev higher to make up for any power loss due to leak down. It will perform well enough.I remember when I got out of high school and finally took my 283 apart to put a cam in it.I found 5 cracked piston skirts and it was very loose.I never put it back together just bought a used 327. sold the 2.02 heads to some other 283 guy
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:35 PM
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The biggest problems with junk yard ring jobs is they might smoke a little and have blow by.They wont make as much power as a good sealing engine,might foul plugs,thats about it.Keep the oil topped upand drive it.They are no more likely to scatter than a new stock engine.

On the plus side an old engine thats loose and gets a longer duration cam can rev higher to make up for any power loss due to leak down. It will perform well enough.I remember when I got out of high school and finally took my 283 apart to put a cam in it.I found 5 cracked piston skirts and it was very loose.I never put it back together just bought a used 327. sold the 2.02 heads to some other 283 guy
I agree it will run well if bore is good but he has the budget to get it right. Why not do a good complete job. You just have to do things right the first few times and learn where corners can be cut that comes from experience. If you have never seen a bore before then you wont be able to judge if it needs bored or can be ringed and still make good power. 350-400 hp can be had but not easy to come by if you have cut too many corners on day one.

When i built my poncho it had a lip of .041 i was going for 472 and didnt care if it needed the last over bore. But it ran when i got it and would still squeak the tires a little... That was a virgin block in original car untouched. If his block is that bad he will need to machine it to get it back in spec.
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:46 PM
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hcompton I agree.A person could also buy a fitted block from a jobber and piece the rest together
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:14 PM
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WOW! I did not expect to get such a great response. I haven't had time to get on here the last few days and so when I did I was blown away! Thanks for all the suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
For what your looking for, here's my suggestion and many won't agree, but having done it, recently....I'm speaking from my experience.
Have everything inspected, and if all checks out OK, have it honed, new bearings and rings, and call the bottom end done....leave the stock pistons and all, remember, this is a learning curve and also fun seeing what you can get for little money.
Find a set of 416 casting heads from a 305 Monte Carlo ss etc, research on here Fbird 88, do what he says pertaining to the heads, the machine shop will have plenty of 194 intake valves laying around, just ask them when you send out the heads. Assuming the motors you bought were complete, I would hope at least one has a qjet Carb on it, if not, check the classifieds, if you already have one, read, and research what to inspect, and rebuild if required.
Again, check the classifieds, find someone who "upgraded" to an air gap or single plane, and go buy their used performer rpm intake.
Order new, summit racing or jegs, lunati 10120101lk, barebones, under 100$ with lifters,
Again, summit or jegs for no name long tube headers for aroundn100$ for whatever platform your using.
Install in something that isn't a tank, run 410, gears, shift kit, and your done.
You can make this happen in your budget, the amount of motor you end up with will be decided by how much time you spend on the heads, I have over 40hrs in mine, I have driven fast cars, been in fast cars, grown up with fast cars, and was completely stunned, as was everyone else who rode in my vette, by how strong it really is...you will be satisfied....and look like a hero to your buddies for making "junk" parts work.......
There was one complete motor, everything except exhaust manifold...it's all stock from a 69 gm truck according to all the numbers I have been able to find and it had a gasket rebuild kit. I don't plan on doing much to that engine. I'm going to use it just to learn the bare basics...take it apart, clean it up and put it back to the way it was originally, Rochester 2 barrel and all.

The other engine is going to be the horsepower project and I plan on replacing the 350 that is in my Jimmy with it. The budget isn't really hard and fixed...it's more of a guideline to prevent me from taking the easy way out and say sending it off to an engine shop and telling them what I want it to be capable of when I get it back.

So far this is what I know and the parts I think will work:

The engine is a 1st Gen 350. I haven't noticed any defects the cylinder walls seem to be in good shape and it does have the rotating assembly but no top end. I'm still planning on the vortec heads with 64cc chamber and having them decked, I feel confident that I can port and polish them myself. I'm planning on flat top pistons with 10.2:1 CR and the rest of the mathematics to get me to an 8.06 DCR with a COMP Cams Xtreme 4x4 Camshafts 12-414-8. This is the basics about the cam "Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 280/284, Lift .474, 1800-5800 RPM range"

That is as far as I have gotten and before I continue I would like some validation that I'm on the right track.

I'm also interested in a little more info on boring the 350 to 383. What does that involve besides having the block bored?

Last edited by 85jimmy350; 10-25-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:57 PM
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I also have done a JY engine rebuild. The most expensive thing in the short block was the $40 ring set. The head is a different story...

I am still surprised everytime I go out there and turn the key and the damn thing starts right up. No problems at all. Most of the gaskets I didn't even replace, just went though a tube of RTV.

I will say that for the money you're better off skipping the Vortec's unless you already own them. If you have them they're good, but if you need to buy them, and springs, and machine work it adds up fast and you may as well get some better import heads.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:14 PM
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383 is a 350 with a longer stroke crank. The piston have a higher pin so the dec height does not change.

Without the boring i think its a 377 then bored .030 or .040 to get around 383. Some minor work with a die grinder may be needed. But if you use 5.7 rods the changes are very small.

6.0 inch rods give you the same deck height with even higher piston pin placement. These are said to give more power i will not get in to why. Just to say theycost alot more and give very little. 5.7 kits are the way to go.

If you do a search i think hotrod had a nice write up with pictures of the areas that need cleaned up. And shows how little to take out.

Does your block with the heads off have a lip at the top of the cylinder. It should have some carbon build up if it was run. Clean that off and look for metal being worn away. This happen and can tell you how much the bore has gotten out of shape. Usally best for good power to have it bored for proper piston to cylinder clearnce. Also check all the bearings for being resized. I use a digital caliper to measure most of everything. Just write down the size and look up the stock size and the over bores and see if ypunget a match will help you get the meausrements right. Some times caliper can be off becuase its hard to get flat on round surface. But can be used to guest-a-mate your sizes. But if there is damage you cant get accurate readings from caliper.

Sorry for all the long replies. Hope it helps.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
6.0 inch rods give you the same deck height with even higher piston pin placement. These are said to give more power i will not get in to why. Just to say theycost alot more and give very little. 5.7 kits are the way to go.

They usually don't cost any more. And they usually work better due to slightly extended dwell at TDC and less rod angularity (side loading).


Going 383 is the exact opposite of a cheap build. They work great but by the time you're done it'll tack on an extra grand compared to reusing stock crank, rods, and pistons.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:27 PM
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I might have missed it ,but I didn't read where anyone had mentioned to the OP about the tools needed to build an engine. Here's a link for an intermediate builders tools.Intermediate Engine Building - Popular Hot Rodding Magazine
You don't have to buy all these for a budget build, but some are going to be needed. IMO you'll need to buy or borrow a 1/2" torque wrench, balancer installer, oil priming tool, ring compressor, and feeler gauges(ring/spark plug gap).
You said you were going to port the heads, so you'll need a valve spring compressor to remove/install the valves. You'll need a valve spring mic, or a set of dial/digital calipers to install new springs/shims for spring installed height verification. I recomend the dial/digital calipers as you can use them for alot of other measures like piston in the hole depth for figuring compression.
Instead of a set of micrometers/bore gauge to measure crankjournals/main & rod bearing ID, you can get some kind of idea about clearances using Plastigauge, but its not the right way to check for journal/bearing runout IMO.
You'll need a gasket scraper, and a set of engine brushes to clean-up used parts.
You'll need a degree wheel, and a dial gauge/magnetic base to verify the cam install/specs. Or do like alot guys do and just install it and keep you fingers crossed.(bad idea IMO)
You'll need a timing light, vacuum gauge, & tachometer to tune it for best performance, or at least I do.
I'm not saying you have to buy all of these, but IMO you'll need to use most all of them if you want do do the job with any kind of peice of mind.
As far as 400hp IMO you'd be happier with more of a torque engine producing around 325-350hp on the street.
For 325-350hp with ported vortec heads, I'd recommend a max 9.0:1CR, a Comp Cams HE260 cam(212 deg @ 0.050") with matching springs, an Edelbrock Performer intake, and a 600cfm Holley vacuum secondary carb. You'll get to keep a stock stall trans convertor, and have great throttle responce from idle to about 5200rpm. Might be able to run 87 octane gas if quench is tight.
For 400hp with ported vortec heads, I'd recommend at 9.5:1CR, at least a Comp Cam 270 Magnum cam with matching springs(see comp catalog), an Edelbrock RPM intake, a 750cfm vacuum secondary carb, and a 2400rpm or higher stall convertor.
You didn't say what kind of car, trans, or rear gears your using, so I'm guessing its around 3200lbs, with an auto trans, and stock gears.
FWIW
ssmonty
My parent's run a pawn shop so it's pretty easy to get tools for cheap. The job specific are a little harder but not impossible plus I don't mind buying to have around.

I have an 85 full size Jimmy. 700r4 transmission and 4.56 gears.
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