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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:28 PM
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To inspect the bore look up pictures of cross hatch in bore and see if your bore has the same crossing pattern still left on the bore faint is fine gone or lines/scratches going top to bottom is bad.

Cast heads are easy enough to port al cuts quick and mistakes can happen fast. Best to use long carbide bits and take your time cutting from right to left against the tool rotation always. Do not run th bit back and forth this will dig the edges out and make a bad shape in the port. Dont knife edge the guides Like you see on the net. They are fine just cleaned up. No reason to take the chance of removing a swirl device if you are not sure dont cut it out just sand smooth with the flapper. The flapper make the finish. Also be sure the use rounded bit a sharp line cut by a square bit can be impossible to remove. Basic cleanup is the most hp when porting everything after that is chasing squirrels.

For v8 i do a little on each port. doing the same part of each port making sure they are all the same. This way you will not get to the last port and have 7 different ports to try to match up. Also gives you steps to follow and easy stopping point. To avoid going over the top on the first port and having to spend 25 hours per port to finish your heads.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
I also have done a JY engine rebuild. The most expensive thing in the short block was the $40 ring set. The head is a different story...

I am still surprised everytime I go out there and turn the key and the damn thing starts right up. No problems at all. Most of the gaskets I didn't even replace, just went though a tube of RTV.

I will say that for the money you're better off skipping the Vortec's unless you already own them. If you have them they're good, but if you need to buy them, and springs, and machine work it adds up fast and you may as well get some better import heads.
I am just looking through classifieds trying to find a guy who is trying to get rid of a set for cheap. I don't really have a timeline for when this has to be done. The 350 in my Jimmy runs fine. I was just looking for a project and I figured building an engine sounded like fun and it's something I would like to know how to do so in a couple years I can start teaching my son. Assuming I can find a well priced set in the classifieds would I need to replace the springs, valves, etc?
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 08:54 PM
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They usually don't cost any more. And they usually work better due to slightly extended dwell at TDC and less rod angularity (side loading).


Going 383 is the exact opposite of a cheap build. They work great but by the time you're done it'll tack on an extra grand compared to reusing stock crank, rods, and pistons.
You cant rebuild an engine and not replace the pistons. Its not a rebuild just taking it apart and putting it back together with all the same problems.

383 is very cheap. As i said if it needs crank work 383 is the same cost. Since you already need pistons to rebuild an engine. And new 383 crank on 350 bearings is only 199.99 so 383 has very little cost over stock rebuild. 400 crank has larger mains.

6" rods do cost alot more along with a small base circle cam and added work to get them to fit. Now you need to know how to install these as you have to cut alot more metal out of the block. Including the 100 more for 6 inch rods this kind of work cost way too much for the power you get. Done them both was not impressed. Talk all the internet bs you want...

I posted a link for a complete revuild kit with 383 rotating assbley with crank rods and pistons balanced! Only $999 Also has a cam of your choice. And its good stuff. Hastings, clevite, meldon, @ap72 What else do you want. Do you want a door to door stroker kit saleman to stop by the house. Google it hotrod did a big right up on how the cost is the same for 350. Lots of ppl have done them for next to nothing.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
You cant rebuild an engine and not replace the pistons. Its not a rebuild just taking it apart and putting it back together with all the same problems.

383 is very cheap. As i said if it needs crank work 383 is the same cost. Since you already need pistons to rebuild an engine. And new 383 crank on 350 bearings is only 199.99 so 383 has very little cost over stock rebuild. 400 crank has larger mains.

6" rods do cost alot more along with a small base circle cam and added work to get them to fit. Now you need to know how to install these as you have to cut alot more metal out of the block. Including the 100 more for 6 inch rods this kind of work cost way too much for the power you get. Done them both was not impressed. Talk all the internet bs you want...

I posted a link for a complete revuild kit with 383 rotating assbley with crank rods and pistons balanced! Only $999 Also has a cam of your choice. And its good stuff. Hastings, clevite, meldon, @ap72 What else do you want. Do you want a door to door stroker kit saleman to stop by the house. Google it hotrod did a big right up on how the cost is the same for 350. Lots of ppl have done them for next to nothing.
Without rereading all of this, I think the op had a 1000$ budget which means he would have a 999$ paper weight if the money isn't there to machine, assemble, heads, intake...yada yada yada.......I said it before, will say it again.....come down to Ottawa, we can go for a cruise in my 800$, 305 headed, stock short block junk, then we can go for beers, I will even buy, and you can maybe let me get in a couple "I told ya so's" lol......
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
You cant rebuild an engine and not replace the pistons. Its not a rebuild just taking it apart and putting it back together with all the same problems.

383 is very cheap. As i said if it needs crank work 383 is the same cost. Since you already need pistons to rebuild an engine. And new 383 crank on 350 bearings is only 199.99 so 383 has very little cost over stock rebuild. 400 crank has larger mains.

6" rods do cost alot more along with a small base circle cam and added work to get them to fit. Now you need to know how to install these as you have to cut alot more metal out of the block. Including the 100 more for 6 inch rods this kind of work cost way too much for the power you get. Done them both was not impressed. Talk all the internet bs you want...

I posted a link for a complete revuild kit with 383 rotating assbley with crank rods and pistons balanced! Only $999 Also has a cam of your choice. And its good stuff. Hastings, clevite, meldon, @ap72 What else do you want. Do you want a door to door stroker kit saleman to stop by the house. Google it hotrod did a big right up on how the cost is the same for 350. Lots of ppl have done them for next to nothing.
depending on the wear its quite common to rebuild an engine with the original pistons.

And with many 6" rods clearancing is not needed.


We were talking about a $1000 engine build- meaning clean and hone the block yourself, install a rering kit, a hotter cam, used intake manifold, used headers, and either port a set of heads or go with import castings.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
depending on the wear its quite common to rebuild an engine with the original pistons.

And with many 6" rods clearancing is not needed.

We were talking about a $1000 engine build- meaning clean and hone the block yourself, install a rering kit, a hotter cam, used intake manifold, used headers, and either port a set of heads or go with import castings.
Well in response to your first statement: If your building a junker. If you take your car to a shop for an engine rebuild wouldnt you be pissed if they didnt bore it.

Second: 6 inch rods that you do not have to machine the block for are about 800 a set. Just for the rods themselves. since they are not 400 rods but 383 update rods. pistons for 6" rods also cost more.

He said 1500 and thats all in budget. I have built them for less. I have a 383 right now that did not cost 1000 to build. Just because you cant do it does not mean it can not be done AP27.

Like I said I agree a junk yard rebuild can last a while and make power. But as for giving someone advice on how to rebuild an engine. Why give bad advice that will result in a waste of money. No reason to rebuild an engine just to put rings in it. the ones it has are fine if you can rering it and run big power it didnt need to be rebuilt in the first place. Could have left it alone and just stuck a cam in it. Same results...

The best advice I can give the OP is to do the job as right as your budget allows. fully rebuilt engines will last a long time and make good power. Re-ring jobs usally start to smoke after 10-20k miles and toast at 30K. Cost does not matter. it will cost more to do it twice. It does not cost an internet dude nothing if your stuck setting on the side of the road with a junker rebuild. So no matter the cost it is always alot cheaper to do the job once and right the first time.

@bygddy that was not your first rebuild was it? A good job takes some skill you cant say its not easier to do a good job your first time with all new parts? His budget is reasonable why not do it right.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 12:02 PM
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what are you 2 guys arguing about?definitions?

freshen an engine
rebuild an engine
remanufacture an engine,
performance build an engine
balance and blue print an engine
full race prep an engine

pick one,define it,discuss that???
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
what are you 2 guys arguing about?definitions?

freshen an engine
rebuild an engine
remanufacture an engine,
performance build an engine
balance and blue print an engine
full race prep an engine

pick one,define it,discuss that???
They are talking about just rering the engine. OP wants to rebuild. They are trying to say dont bore it no matter what. I am just trying not to give out shade tree advice when it could be done right and on budget. Everything you said about freshen and rebuild are all the same as far as bore is concerned. Once the rings have seated in its best to bore it. New rings will not seat correctly on an old bore. So no real diff. they all will need to be bored out to be right. If you had a new car you would not let the dealer replace the rings and tell you its fine. You would call your lawyer.

The arguing is over. ap27 disagrees with me on every post. He is always wrong and never researches anything he says. He is import dude. So always give advice that is only correct for four bangers and to ppl on forums. WAG's..... I posted links for the right parts and will let the OP decide how he wants to build his blocks. Unless the op has a question I am done trying to talk to ppl who have not seen the inside of an engine OP not included he honest in his quest for knowledge. I have rebuilt a bunch of engine from lawn mowers to 500 cube blocks. I have seen them come apart because of crappy old parts. Cash is the key if you build something that breaks done you got nothing but more cash to spend.

Not directed at you Vin or OP. Just need to vent a little. Shade tree mechanics burn my arse.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 01:01 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
They are talking about just rering the engine. OP wants to rebuild. They are trying to say dont bore it no matter what. I am just trying not to give out shade tree advice when it could be done right and on budget. Everything you said about freshen and rebuild are all the same as far as bore is concerned. Once the rings have seated in its best to bore it. New rings will not seat correctly on an old bore. So no real diff. they all will need to be bored out to be right. If you had a new car you would not let the dealer replace the rings and tell you its fine. You would call your lawyer.

The arguing is over. ap27 disagrees with me on every post. He is always wrong and never researches anything he says. He is import dude. So always give advice that is only correct for four bangers and to ppl on forums. WAG's..... I posted links for the right parts and will let the OP decide how he wants to build his blocks. Unless the op has a question I am done trying to talk to ppl who have not seen the inside of an engine OP not included he honest in his quest for knowledge. I have rebuilt a bunch of engine from lawn mowers to 500 cube blocks. I have seen them come apart because of crappy old parts. Cash is the key if you build something that breaks done you got nothing but more cash to spend.

Not directed at you Vin or OP. Just need to vent a little. Shade tree mechanics burn my arse.
If there is no significant bore wear you can rehone a block and run new rings just fine- its done a hell of a lot. And yes, unlike you I have never experienced one of my engines coming apart. I guess if I ever need advice on how to break something I'll be sure to ask you.

Regarding the budget "wait until you have more money" is not an answer, its a lack of an answer. Given a good core, a basic 400hp sbc can easily be done for less than $1000 if you put the work in yourself and reuse a lot of factory parts.

FWIW, I'm not intending to argue, just correcting your bad advice so readers don't mistake it for valid information- its more for their benefit than your embarrassment. You embarrass yourself enough.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 01:07 PM
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I forgot to include the word
Repair.
factory engines have specifications they need to meet,,,The tolerances are wide and in some circumstances not acceptable. I hope the O.P. does not get discouraged.
What I think he should do,is take a running engine apart,buy a gasket set ,measure all the parts and compare them to factory recommendations,then put it back together with the least amount of new parts and see how it runs.Things like timing chain and tune up parts need to be replaced.Maybe change the intake.Maybe change the cam and lifters to "slightly" enhance power,only after measuring old cam and calculating wear,if any. check all the valve train parts thoroughly,take the heads apart and check valve guide wear,if its fair or better just use it putting in new seals.clean and check valves,install new springs and retainers and tune her up and try to blow the thing up.If something fails,then look for assembley mistakes and do the next one better
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
I forgot to include the word
Repair.
factory engines have specifications they need to meet,,,The tolerances are wide and in some circumstances not acceptable. I hope the O.P. does not get discouraged.
What I think he should do,is take a running engine apart,buy a gasket set ,measure all the parts and compare them to factory recommendations,then put it back together with the least amount of new parts and see how it runs.Things like timing chain and tune up parts need to be replaced.Maybe change the intake.Maybe change the cam and lifters to "slightly" enhance power,only after measuring old cam and calculating wear,if any. check all the valve train parts thoroughly,take the heads apart and check valve guide wear,if its fair or better just use it putting in new seals.clean and check valves,install new springs and retainers and tune her up and try to blow the thing up.If something fails,then look for assembley mistakes and do the next one better
Exactly what I'm saying- except port the heads while you're there as its free power and throw on a set of used headers.

Just keep the cam within the limit of the heads and you can't go wrong. It really makes a big difference what cores you start with too- if you have a good short block with minimal wear and flat top pistons along with some Vortec or camel hump heads it makes making good power a LOT easier.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 01:38 PM
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If there is no significant bore wear you can rehone a block and run new rings just fine- its done a hell of a lot. And yes, unlike you I have never experienced one of my engines coming apart. I guess if I ever need advice on how to break something I'll be sure to ask you.

Regarding the budget "wait until you have more money" is not an answer, its a lack of an answer. Given a good core, a basic 400hp sbc can easily be done for less than $1000 if you put the work in yourself and reuse a lot of factory parts.

FWIW, I'm not intending to argue, just correcting your bad advice so readers don't mistake it for valid information- its more for their benefit than your embarrassment. You embarrass yourself enough.
Lol your tractor motor turns over to slow to blow up. Not worried about my skill as a tech. The one engine you have built has not been started yet so it should be safe for now. And yes i have blown a few and proud of it. Thats why i wont give clown *** advice without mic ing the block...
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 02:04 PM
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I don't know squat about these motors, but I have to agree.
Superb! Thats made my day!
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:59 PM
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I guess maybe a little more information about me and what I'm after might be helpful. First off I am a perfectionist and I have strong OCD tendencies. I'm not looking to take any short cuts and I don't do things with the "good enough" mindset. The budget is less of a budget and more of a personal challenge. I would imagine just about anyone can throw 10k at (insert parts store name) and make decent HP, but I want to challenge myself to learn how to do as much as I can and I intend to do everything myself with the exception of machine work on the block. If parts are reusable and adequate to get me in the HP range I'm shooting for I don't mind cleaning them up and reusing them but I'm not going to work my but off putting something together knowing that I'm reusing a part/parts that really shouldn't be used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
What I think he should do,is take a running engine apart,buy a gasket set ,measure all the parts and compare them to factory recommendations,then put it back together with the least amount of new parts and see how it runs.
That is what I plan to do with the first of the two engines. It is a complete engine, the only thing it is missing is exhaust manifold. I plan to reuse as much as I can and return it to stock with the exception of a port and polish on the heads for practice before I move onto the second engine.

The second engine is the one I'm trying to make HP with and my goal with it is to get 350-400 HP. With trying to get that amount of HP out of 350 on a budget I assume it will force me to learn how to match the cam, pistons, heads, intake and carb. Right now if I get on a parts website and and start reading cam numbers or CFM numbers etc I look at it as bigger must mean better but bigger also means more expensive so I'm trying to learn how to maximize bang for the buck instead of just throw a bunch of dollars at it.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2012, 03:18 PM
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Google for some good info on dynamic compression ratio it can help you up the compression and pick the right cam to avoid detonation and make some power. Figure a rule of thumb every point of compression ratio is another 100hp potential in good breathing v8 with other parts matched up. But you can only go up 1-2 without detonation issues. Dcr will help you get it in the power range. Just got to figure the right dcr for your heads/combo.
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