350 sbc with 305 h.o heads will this work whats the ups and downs - Page 4 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2012, 01:23 PM
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You will find the balancer goes on a lot easier if you first heat it up for about 20minutes in a big pot of boiling water on the stove.
Use kitchen oven mitts to handle it.
Install hot. It will go on easily. When it cools the press fit is restored.

How do I know this? 'cause I have done it. Just like I have actually done
the home porting hop up on the 305 heads.
And built real performance street engines that go fast.

This is not something you $$$ someone else to do.$$$
Thats the opinion you get from arm chair internet experts that have to pay
someone the do everything for them.
This is the type of opinion you get srom someone who has never ported any heads let alone the 416's.

Ya do it your self. You only pay the machine shop for the machine work you cannot do yourself.
And it is very cost effective.
And performance effective.

I have also directly compared the ported 416's to vortecs and stock 882's on the same motor in the same car. For the total $460 I spent the heads rock.

For the $300 some you say you spent, yours will too.

Every set I have done and then sold off (with a full performance satisfaction garrantee) Has never come back. "If it don;t do what I say it will just bring them back"

Now I wish a set or the engine they were on , did come back.
I need another set for a up coming project. LOL

many other people have done this with very good real performance gains
especially for the money spent.

2.02" valves don't work well in these heads.
The 1.94x 1.60 valves work about the best in these heads.
Yup they need a generous amount of porting.
The as cast port volume is actually larger than than many stock SBC heads.

Get your car together and report on the performance.

The best thing to do to source a usable set of these heads or any other heads ( Yes there are others I like to use)
is to find a set on a running stock motor. Buy the whole motor or buy the whole car.
Usually the stuff you see for sale (eg: kijiji) is junk and or way overpriced.

I even got as set out of a dumpster. Right after my friend thru them in there. (broken top of valve guide boss)
I think I had $225 total cost in that set including replaceing the valve guide. LOL. Sold for $750. The guy could not give me the money fast enough.
When on a low budget 400sbc for a 55chev. I insisted when I sold them that if they did not workand perform , bring them back for a full refund.

These heads typically flow in the 230-235cfm range when done right.
The lowest I have gotten is 225cfm. The highest 242cfm on these heads 1.94x 1.60 manley valves.
Some I have blocked off the heat risers in the ex ports , some not. That works good.

One day, just for grins, we flow test compared one of my sets to a dart 180cc iron eagle head.

208cfm for the dart 234cfm for the ported 4416 heads .
$800 +shipping for the darts $460 total cost for the 4416's done.
My friend was sick.
I wanted him to buy vortecs.
yes there are other heads to buy. Yes ultimatley a good high cost aftermarket head will make more power
than these. But for the money invested they are hard to beat.
The time is just time you would otherwise waste on internet forums like this.

I am interested in getting a set of bare procomp 210's and working them up myself.
But the cost will be higher for sure. The cost of just the bare casting will be higher than the whole complete cost of reworking/porting the 416 heads.

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Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-17-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2012, 02:44 PM
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Ignore the arm chair experts . These same guys usually recomend small 600cfm carbs etc etc.
Air flow makes power, carbs heads exhaust headers and system and the intake manifold , have to flow air to make power.
if you choke it with a small carb or small exhaust or a lazy porting effort etc you will get
crappy results. MAKE IT BREATHE!!! Make the engine process a lot of air.
The lowly performer manifold is going to limit the performance too.
The RPM manifold is way better in every respect.

Get your car together and post the performance results.
if you did a decent job of porting the heads it will work well.
Most people make the mistake of not porting the stock head enough.
Mostly because they buy into the typical misinformation on this subject.
Like just do a pocket port job or just do the first and last inch you can reach etc.

You need to get serious with the die grinder. The meat and potatoes is deep in the port.
A small effort gets you a small result.
This goes for any of the stock SBC heads including the good old fuelies.

One of the other often overlooked stock heads that work very well with full home brewed porting
is the "083" iron castings found on 350 L98 TPI motors. Likes 2.02x 1.60's and generous porting.
Another "diamond in the rough". For a cost conscience performance build up.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-17-2012 at 02:56 PM.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2012, 03:07 PM
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The biggest problem on the 416 head is the exhaust port.
This is where you will go wrong buying into the "don;t hog it out advice"
The whole exhaust port needs a good bit of enlarging and shaping.
But,,, do not just make the port opening huge. As tempting as it might be.
Do not make the exhaust port exit larger than the headers are.
All you will do is make for leaky header gaskets.
The only time you need a large ex port exit is for a full race large diameter superstock header.
Again the meat and potatoes is deep in the port.
If you are not dirty up to the elbows, it ain;t enough.
Get serious around the guide boss in both the intake and exhaust port.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2012, 03:18 PM
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Here is a pic of a fully ported 083 head.
You can see there is serious flow paths around the guide now.
These are not my heads but heads done at home by another guy who did not listen to the arm chair experts.
These 083 heads flow over 270cfm (2.08" valve)

When done generously @HOME with just a 1.94" valve they flowed over 240cfm.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2012, 03:34 PM
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Here is another pic of a nicely done full HOME ported 4416 head.
again see the strong flow paths around eh valve guide boss.
These heads will make strong power on a street motor
with a strong torqy power band well past 6000rpm.
With other good supporting parts. Like a 750-800cfm carb performer rpm or vic JR
healthy hyd or street strip solid lifter cam long tube 1-5/8" headers and 2.5" ex.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
Here is another pic of a nicely done full HOME ported 4416 head.
again see the strong flow paths around eh valve guide boss.
These heads will make strong power on a street motor
with a strong torqy power band well past 6000rpm.
With other good supporting parts. Like a 750-800cfm carb performer rpm or vic JR
healthy hyd or street strip solid lifter cam long tube 1-5/8" headers and 2.5" ex.
We'll I did exactly that, I hit deep in the ports using a 6" bit and cut cut cut lol.....the exhaust ports I was easy on the exit port as I was concerned about the headers, but I opened up the bowls a ton, my guide boss's look very similar to those pictured so that makes me feel pretty good, I matched all ports to my heads. As much as I would love to have an rpm or an airgap until I find a used one it can't happen. I am running a 1" spacer so hopefully that will help, instead of the 600 ede I'm sticking with the bigger quad for now. If the heads work well I might step up next year and actually spend some money on some "real" parts like a decent intake, long tubes and lots more cam......or bandaid it and buy a used nitrous kit and see how much stock cast slugs will handle. Thereby keeping up my personal entertainment seeing how much for how little I can do......
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:07 PM
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You have a Qjet carb on it now???? "quad" It can and will work well but needs some dialing in to get it right.

You need to be patient and work at it to get a Qjet right. Then they fly.

reguardless I recomend you get or make a divided spacer for it.

Keep the plenum and carb spacer fully divided when using the stock torque converter.
make it as high/thick as you dare. 1" 1.5" 2" use what works. Wood works. Cheap and effective at keeping the carb cool.
I make my own carb spacers out of wood for peanuts.

I want to nail your *** to the seat with engine torque LOL!!!!

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-17-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by lg1969 View Post
No bygddy , it just the 202 would cost me too much to have them work on and few more $$$. AFR was better deal for me. I'm not saying to get AFR. By the time you get the 305 heads and have it worked on, in which will cost a person lot of $$$. You are better off getting aftermarket heads for a little extra $$$.
And believe me, if cost were no object I agree, everything I hear is all positive for AFR heads. But honestly, this little experiment of mine is the most fun with cars I have ever had, I have just over 300$ in theses heads, and that included 194 intake valves, three angle valve job, and both of those were free! Wanna know why? Cause my machine shop guy, who has been building motors a long time, loves theses heads, loves making them work, and thinks its cool to not spend 2200$ on a set of AFR heads for a stock bottom end completely street able 350. All this being said I may have completely messed these heads up and it may run like garbage, and if that's the case, the guy down the street has a set on kijiji for $60 but he lives down the street and us country boys help each other out so i could likely get them for 40$.....and we will try again.....hell, its only time on the computer I missing out on lol....
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
You have a Qjet carb on it now???? "quad"
Lol, yah, it was reman when the motor was replaced some years ago, it works amazing, does absolutely nothing weird, stumble, bog, nada.......Qjet .......yah I'm a *******....but I suspect I will stick with it for now, and its bigger then the Edelbrock
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
You have a Qjet carb on it now???? "quad" It can and will work well but needs some dialing in to get it right.

You need to be patient and work at it to get a Qjet right. Then they fly.

reguardless I recomend you get or make a divided spacer for it.

Keep the plenum and carb spacer fully divided when using the stock torque converter.
make it as high/thick as you dare. 1" 1.5" 2" use what works. Wood works. Cheap and effective at keeping the carb cool.
I make my own carb spacers out of wood for peanuts.

I want to nail your *** to the seat with engine torque LOL!!!!
The spacer I have is the......that fkn plastic word, can't remember what its called lol, but its a plastic 4 hole for the Qjet
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2012, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
The spacer I have is the......that fkn plastic word, can't remember what its called lol, but its a plastic 4 hole for the Qjet
Ok cool. Don't be afraid to try experiment with the spacer thickness 1/2 1" 2"
4 hole, divided or a mix/match. This can have a big effect on low end torque and throttle responce on cars with a stock converter stall.
You will see the effect in how the car drives.

I prefer the earlier simpler pre 1975 4MV style Q jets.
If yours works well you are 3 steps ahead of the game. You can get tuning parts from Edelbrock etc for it.

Edelbrock even makes a cool specific performer RPM style manifold that fits a Qjet directly.
Can use either type carb without a spacer or with. Keep your eye out for this if you like Q jets and going fast.
Will fit under the corvette hood with the OEm 14x 3"corvette air cleaner.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
The spacer I have is the......that fkn plastic word, can't remember what its called lol, but its a plastic 4 hole for the Qjet
I think phenolic is the word your looking for. Good luck with the build.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by stroker_SS View Post
I think phenolic is the word your looking for. Good luck with the build.
!!! That's it lol....thanks....on a side note, any way to I'd the cam I just pulled out? I can see a stamp that reads "gm29" between a couple of lobes, then under the next lobe I believe it says 6920? Any clue?
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:23 PM
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:20 PM
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any all relevent meaningfull numbers are stamped on the end of the cam.
Any numbers cast on the core don't mean much.
If you want to ID it measure the lobe lift with a caliper
or stick it back in and degree it @.050"
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