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Old 04-08-2010, 07:50 AM
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350 SBC Build

Here is a link that shows the parts i am thinking about getting. I would like some input on what else would go good with these parts. I am leaving the stock cam in it for now, but i will be getting another one in a couple months. Im not looking for crazy HP but i do want to be in the neiborhood of about 375 BHP. right now i have a 350 SBC, casting # 10066036 Hencho Motor. Any input is greatly appreaciated.

Chris

http://www.summitracing.com/checkout/cart.aspx
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:08 AM
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First, your Summit link came up .... Your shopping cart is empty, so w/o any info there's no way to answer your question.

Second, I wouldn't waste my time and money building an engine thinking that in a few months I'll tear the top end down to do a cam swap. Just wait and do it all at the same time.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 327NUT
First, your Summit link came up .... Your shopping cart is empty, so w/o any info there's no way to answer your question.

Second, I wouldn't waste my time and money building an engine thinking that in a few months I'll tear the top end down to do a cam swap. Just wait and do it all at the same time.

X2

and 375 brake hp is about 470hp to the flywheel, although that may not be "crazy" horsepower, that is still quite a bit out of 350. list your parts and specs (so we dont have to search for them) and we can give you an idea if you are on the right track
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
X2

and 375 brake hp is about 470hp to the flywheel, although that may not be "crazy" horsepower, that is still quite a bit out of 350. list your parts and specs (so we dont have to search for them) and we can give you an idea if you are on the right track
I'm pretty sure he's thinkin' (correctly) that brake horsepower would be measured at the flywheel. RWHP or rear wheel horsepower would be measured at the rear wheels on a chassis dyno, then factored back by 120% or whatever figure you want to use for drivetrain loss, to arrive at a flywheel figure.

I agree with waiting and doing all of it at one time.

List the individual parts you were thinking about using, along with what you will be asking the motor to do for future duty and some of us will try to help you.
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Old 04-08-2010, 02:42 PM
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Your link has all the stuff in it I'm looking to buy. Although seam sealer and paint doesn't add horsepower.
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
I'm pretty sure he's thinkin' (correctly) that brake horsepower would be measured at the flywheel. RWHP or rear wheel horsepower would be measured at the rear wheels on a chassis dyno, then factored back by 120% or whatever figure you want to use for drivetrain loss, to arrive at a flywheel figure.

I agree with waiting and doing all of it at one time.

List the individual parts you were thinking about using, along with what you will be asking the motor to do for future duty and some of us will try to help you.

Yes, i do mean at the flywheel, sorry. Here is a list of the part numbers i am going for and summitracing.com
CMB-08-0034
i found a fet sets of rocker arms, but im not sure wich would be best
CMB-08-0039 come with a cam and roller timing set but for some reason i keep second guessing the cam????
i know you are going to tell me to get the cam and i most likley will, but i would like some input as to what rocker arms and lifters to go with. if i stay with the Hyd flat tappet i have now, and flat tappet lifters, would they be compatible with the head/rocker set up?here is the information for my engines current set up

-(4) Bolt main block with a (2) piece rear main seal.
-Cast Iron Crank.
-Forged steel connecting rods.
-Cast Pistons, (dished).
-Hydraulic flat tappet cam, (.383� intake / .401� exhaust) and a 112-degree lobe separation.
-Cast Iron Cylinder heads with a 76cc combustion chamber. (Non vortec design)
-8.5:1 compression ratio.

thanks again and sorry for the first post, i was in a litle bit of a hurry when i posted it.

Chris
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:44 PM
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personally i like the first combo better, although the edelbrock heads probably perform better than the summit vortec heads. i dont like the cam in the edelbrock kit at all you have a 278-288 advertised duration with a 204-214 advanced duration, and then with a 112 LSA, and also only having .420" lift on the intake, this is a very mild mannered cam. i hav a rule of thumb that i stick to when looking at cams i always want my advanced duration to be no more than 50ish degrees from my advertised duration. so for the advertised spec on this cam i would want an advanced duration around 222-226int and 232-236exh. this cam has over 70 degrees from advertised to advanced.

the vortec kit doesn't mention what the max lift is so i would call summit to see if they could tell you. but for now i will just stick to what a standard vortec's range is. i would say that a decent cam somewhere around 272-278int/ 276-282exh (i would look at dual pattern beacause of the 1.50" exh valve) 220-226 @ 050, with around a .460" lift.

the motor you have has actually shown to be closer to 8.0:1 although i know it says 8.5:1 so the 64cc heads will get you to 9.0:1, with the cams i mentioned you will end up needting to change your stall and rear gears if they aren't already upgraded, but these thing should put you right at you're goal of about 375hp
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
personally i like the first combo better, although the edelbrock heads probably perform better than the summit vortec heads. i dont like the cam in the edelbrock kit at all you have a 278-288 advertised duration with a 204-214 advanced duration, and then with a 112 LSA, and also only having .420" lift on the intake, this is a very mild mannered cam. i hav a rule of thumb that i stick to when looking at cams i always want my advanced duration to be no more than 50ish degrees from my advertised duration. so for the advertised spec on this cam i would want an advanced duration around 222-226int and 232-236exh. this cam has over 70 degrees from advertised to advanced.

the vortec kit doesn't mention what the max lift is so i would call summit to see if they could tell you. but for now i will just stick to what a standard vortec's range is. i would say that a decent cam somewhere around 272-278int/ 276-282exh (i would look at dual pattern beacause of the 1.50" exh valve) 220-226 @ 050, with around a .460" lift.

the motor you have has actually shown to be closer to 8.0:1 although i know it says 8.5:1 so the 64cc heads will get you to 9.0:1, with the cams i mentioned you will end up needting to change your stall and rear gears if they aren't already upgraded, but these thing should put you right at you're goal of about 375hp
ADVERTISED DURATION NOT ADVANCED DURATION

Keep in ind adv. duration varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, so its relatively insignificant.

The second build won't hit 375hp.
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:34 AM
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I believe he's referring to duration @ 0.050" as "advanced" duration, although I've not heard it called that before.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:24 AM
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You have advertised duration and you have duration @ 0.050" tappet lift. As ap72 said, the advertised can vary not only from grinder to grinder, but cam grind style to style. Flat tappet solids are usually rated from 0.020" tappet lift for the advertised figures, while flat tappet hydraulics are rated from 0.006" (usually )

When you subtract the 0.050 figure from the advertised figure, you are left with the combined (opening and closing) ramp durations. Dividing that in half will give you the number of degrees of ramp for either the opening or the closing side, assuming a symetrical grind. In other words, if you have 230 and 280, one side of the lobe is 25 degrees duration. If you have a 230 and 300, one side of the lobe is 35 degrees duration. Now, it's easy to see that if it takes 35 degrees to list the valve from 0.006" to 0.050", it's gonna be easier on the lifter/lobe interface than if you lifted the valve the same distance in only 25 degrees of rotation.

I think you will see more cam failures with the "extreme" grinds than you will with the old school "lazy" grinds. The lazy grinds may not make as much hp, but hp doesn't mean much when you have to pull the motor down to clean out the shrapnel from a pooched lobe/lifter.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:29 AM
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I like the first package better too. The first kit has GM vortec heads #12558060.

Might as well spend the $200 while you're at it and get a cam & lifters to match you combo. Get you a new timing gear while you're at it. They're cheap.

Also, is you block zero decked? You might want to find out how far down in the hole your pistons are before you get that kit. Otherwise, you squish will probably be too much. The gasket in the kit is a .041.
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Old 04-09-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
I think you will see more cam failures with the "extreme" grinds than you will with the old school "lazy" grinds. The lazy grinds may not make as much hp, but hp doesn't mean much when you have to pull the motor down to clean out the shrapnel from a pooched lobe/lifter.


And yea, the advertised numbers are measured at .003, .004, .005, and .006 as far as I know, depending on the manufacturer.

the solid cams are sometime measured at .020, and sometimes at their recommended lash value (can vary from .012 to .030), and sometimes something else all together.

Which is why we use .050" values- it standardizes it.

BTW .050" on a hyd. and a solid cam are NOT the same; as the hyd. cam essentially follows the lobe exactly (not true but close enough for this discussion), and solids have the play from the lash at the valve (which can vary but is more than the slop felt in a hyd. cam).
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Old 04-09-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I believe he's referring to duration @ 0.050" as "advanced" duration, although I've not heard it called that before.

yes duration @ .050" is what advanced duration means, not sure exactly where i heard it from but it stuck so i tend to use both saying
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:57 PM
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would anybody know a good setup to get 440-470hp from a 350
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:56 PM
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11.0-11.5:1 compression, a roller cam with 240-250 degrees @.050 w/ .550+", a decent set of heads such as Brodix IK200, Dart pro1 200cc, or AFR 195cc, with either pair of heads I would have some mild runner and bowl machine work done, 750CFM DP, decent single plane intake such as a victor Jr.

When tuned right it should have you right in the 475hp range
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