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Old 08-09-2010, 05:32 PM
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350 sbc bulid ?'s

iv prb done asked these ?'s but here it goes, i have a 90' k1500 4x4 pickup, with the 350tbi, im ready for a engine bulid, now my heads are prb wore out, it smokes when hot only, when i crank it and gas it, so i know its exp to put guides and valves and valve job, seals and all that good stufff, sooo i was thinking GM perf vortec's and use the eddy's verstion vertec intake for the tbi, and stay with dish pistons, and use the eddy's performer cam 278/288 420"/442" 204/214 will that cam work with the tbi without a prb?? thanx guys... Tim..

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Old 08-09-2010, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofastz
iv prb done asked these ?'s but here it goes, i have a 90' k1500 4x4 pickup, with the 350tbi, im ready for a engine bulid, now my heads are prb wore out, it smokes when hot only, when i crank it and gas it, so i know its exp to put guides and valves and valve job, seals and all that good stufff, sooo i was thinking GM perf vortec's and use the eddy's verstion vertec intake for the tbi, and stay with dish pistons, and use the eddy's performer cam 278/288 420"/442" 204/214 will that cam work with the tbi without a prb?? thanx guys... Tim..
Vortec heads are good choice. The Edlebrock 3702 cam is about as far as TBI can be pushed without gettng into a lot of rocket science. While Edlebrock specs stock ratio rockers, you can mess around with 1.6s. This might get you into a chip see these people; http://www.tbichips.com/

Pistons need to be the D dish not circular dish type. The closer you can close the piston crown to the squish/quench step of the head the better, within the limits of fostering a collision between parts, generally .039 to .050 inch is considered optimum, up to .060 is acceptable, over that the function goes away pretty fast. Circular dist pistons can be as deep as .080 over much of the area needed to optimize the squish/quench which drives to more octane or less power from the octane you can burn. Tight squish jams the mixture in front of the plug where it's easy to ignite and burns quickly. At the far end of the burn comes quench where that part of the chamber acts as a heat sink to improve the octane characteristics of the fuel. These two things allow more compression for a given octane, thus more power and more miles to the gallon. Also, higher NOx if you gotta SMOG this thing.

Bogie
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:07 PM
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ok whats lsa of this cam,n how much power r u looking for,what is c.c.s of heads?
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:10 PM
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great answer bogie!!! saves my comment
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:54 PM
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um, 300-315hp? but keeping it streetable with stock converter, the vortec heads have the 64cc, 170cc intake um 60 or 68cc exh, the stockers have the 76cc intake and exh runners unknown, but keep in mind this is a 4wd engine, good low end and decent mid to 5000-5500rpm's, i fig the performer cam bc the power band is from idle-5500rpms? they say if the cam gives good vac over 15 inches the tbi will do good, idk what do yal think about that?? but i have a set of 1.6 roller tip rockers i can use on this bulid, that would give some extra lift thats good there????
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:40 AM
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i haven't found many cams for the tbi engines, the eddy's tbi cam with the 1.6 rockbers will prb be the best?????
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:02 AM
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[QUOTE=oldbogie]Vortec heads are good choice. The Edlebrock 3702 cam is about as far as TBI can be pushed without gettng into a lot of rocket science. While Edlebrock specs stock ratio rockers, you can mess around with 1.6s. This might get you into a chip see these people; http://www.tbichips.com/

Pistons need to be the D dish not circular dish type. The closer you can close the piston crown to the squish/quench step of the head the better, within the limits of fostering a collision between parts, generally .039 to .050 inch is considered optimum, up to .060 is acceptable, over that the function goes away pretty fast. Circular dist pistons can be as deep as .080 over much of the area needed to optimize the squish/quench which drives to more octane or less power from the octane you can burn. Tight squish jams the mixture in front of the plug where it's easy to ignite and burns quickly. At the far end of the burn comes quench where that part of the chamber acts as a heat sink to improve the octane characteristics of the fuel. These two things allow more compression for a given octane, thus more power and more miles to the gallon. Also, higher NOx if you gotta SMOG this thing.

I think the above advise by bogie is great,if u r staying with dish pistons get the D shaped domes as he suggests,take the bock to reputable machine shop and have them close up the deck height,that will give u more effective quench, I like 0 deck,be carefull with piston to valve clearance if ur gonna play with higher ratio rocker arms, I like to get most of my lift at rocker arm instead of cam,any time u increse the ratio of rocker arms the engine will ALWAYS breathe better,on an s.b. there is also a lot to be gained by increasing the rod ratio,for instance if therod is 6 inches and the stroke is 3.0,the ratio between the 2 is 2:1,this makes the piston "dwell' longer at top dead center,this is important in the transition from the compression stroke to power stroke,if the piston dwells longer there, and ignition is initiated properly there will be more pressure created during combustion to press against the top of the piston,and since you are replacing the pistons,consider stuffing the logest rods you can into the motor while keeping the ring stack reasonable,in a s.b. I think max rod lenght for this is 6.0 inches.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:43 PM
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what about flattop pistons?? to much cr?? dayly driver!
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:14 PM
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i also wouldnt think 1.6 rockers would give interferance, with that low lift cam.. but if i went with flattop pistons would that be to much CR for a daiely driver? im running 89 octane now, i dont want to have to run 93, but if i had to play with the timing to run lower octane gas, that would be cool too, but yeah def 0 deck hieght, the cam is 244/264, 194/214, 398"/442", will this cam be good with stock converter?
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:54 PM
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With 64cc chambers,flat tops with 2 valve reliefs, 4.030 bore,3.48 s and I went with 0 deck and .045 comp gasket thickness, I come up with about 10.5:1,I dont think you ought to run this on anything but 93 octane,I just built very similar engine but with 6 inch rods,same c.c. on heads,but a lot different cam and it runs fine with 93,I think if you want to run regular pump gas maybe you ought to stick with D dished, although i dont know the volume of pistons you r going to use, try to stick to about 9 to 9.5:1 max for regular gas, I dont know how any of this is going to affect any emission regulations you have out there,I live in Alabama,they dont have any emission regulations here,and my engines are all carburated exept my 91 vette and its got a tricked out computer no cat conv. here either"Hotrodders heaven"
Hope this helps.
Ps I like half inch of lift at the valve but i dont know if you can do that or not on T.B.I. I build my engines for a specific cam and time it "Straight up" which doesent mean just lining up the timing marks,I use 1.6 intake ratio rocker and 1.7 exhaust but using 2.05 intake valves also headers intake manifold carburator and exhaust are tuned for this whole combination
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:04 PM
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Where the heck is Sand Rock?
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofastz
i also wouldnt think 1.6 rockers would give interferance, with that low lift cam.. but if i went with flattop pistons would that be to much CR for a daiely driver? im running 89 octane now, i dont want to have to run 93, but if i had to play with the timing to run lower octane gas, that would be cool too, but yeah def 0 deck hieght, the cam is 244/264, 194/214, 398"/442", will this cam be good with stock converter?
I wouldn't go over 9.5:1 other wise you are going to build a dog. You will be restricted on your cam due to the ecm. Being a 1990 to even do anything to the ecm you will have to send the computer off and have a slot soldered into the ecm. I think the tbi is a good setup, and I think if you put the time into it and have the patients to play around with it you won't even want a carburater when you are done.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:59 PM
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Where the heck is Sand Rock?
sorry, sand rock is in cherokee county Alabama, ok that being said ill stick with dish pistons, the eddys cam and 1.6 rockers, the heads though, the intakes are way high, hm someone told me to use the ole set of double humpers i have and grind the tbi intake to fit?? my buddy done this once it ran really good..
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:46 PM
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I would stick with a tbi intake. Even if you don't want to keep the stock heads. If you are leaving this engine tbi you will need the egr to keep the computer inline. Do the older heads have the exhaust crossover? I tried using eddy's performer carb intake with egr on my tbi but I didn't have enough room for the egr valve and the idle air control valve. If you have some extra money in your budget somewhere may I suggest these three parts:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-3581/ I put this in my 93 tbi and it was night and day difference. The biggest killer in the tbi system is the fuel pumps

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-502-9/ I don't know how much this would help you but maybe some of the other fella's could help out on that

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-7810013/ this kit comes on sale about once a year for around 100 bucks, that is when I bought mine, I installed it for extra tire clearance, but it sure makes things a hell of a lot easier to work on, especially when the engine is being removed or installed, plus if you choose to install the edelbrock fuel pump it is easier to just remove the box from the truck, this could be a mistake if you are the project type of guy though because you could get the engine out and then remove the box to put the pump in then you will unbolt the cab and raise it up and soon you will say I will just remove everything and clean up the frame and paint it, then you will have a pile of truck parts sitting there. LOL

Out of those three parts I would go for the fuel pump. This would be the first part I would recommend to anyone looking to get more out of their tbi engines.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:13 PM
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well iv ben thinking somemore, i could use the tbi heads with flattop pistons? or the double humpers "461" heads with D-shaped dish pistons? still leaning on the eddy's tbi cam with 1.6 roller tip rockers to give the engine better breathing, i know the tbi heads are not worth a darn but if the valves are wore out then mayb put some 2.02/1.60 valves in them? i have a motor here that is 87' 350 with flat tops, and the double hump heads and the performer camshaft, i could put the tbi heads on it, change the cam and all that good stuf???
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