350 starter hell

my 83 fullsize jimmy has undergone a full under the hood make over. i bought a long block from checker (vege) and after installation realized the surface where the starter mounts to the block is not in good shape. when you tighten the starter bolts the whole starter tilts away from the flywheel. not just a little but alot. shims are not working and the constant tightening of the bolts are just causing more damage. 3 different shops have tried to fix the problem but the fix only lasts until the check clears and then grind city. i have just put in my 3rd new flywheel and have gone through a dozen starters. would a high torque starter with inline holes work on the problem? is the block too far gone? checker and vege both denied my claim for a replacement block and now i have a new yard ornament (my truck).


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if you have lots of pataince pull the tranny again and get a dremel tool and a small straitedge.grind a little put the straitedge up ggind a little if you have pataince you will get it flat might take a couple of hours. ive cleaned up a lot of little proplems with one.

Have you hooked up the starter brace that hooks from the starter end (nearest the front of the Blazer) to the block? Lots of times this will resolve your problem - although if the surface is bad, you may be just postponing the inevitable pull and take back to Checker.

i have never ground the block but on one of the old starters i did some grinding. unfortunately i ground so much the cone on the starter ended up cracking and losing its itegrity. i am yet to find a brace for a small block. the dealer said they make one for the big block. not the small block. if you know where i gan get a brace that would be great.

I've got the body off the sbc chevy powered 48 willys , the old bellhousing to the jeep adaptor had the starter bolt to the bellhousing not to the block. I don't know what that bell housing came in originally, It used a ford type starter, bolts go front to back that might solve your bad block problem if you can find matching bell and starter

You can look for the brace on about any stock GM early 70s through 80s car or truck. Alternatively, take a piece of 1x1 angle about 3" long. Attach to the bolt that holds the housing together - there should be one with a stud on the end of it; then connect to the 5/16" hole above the freeze plug / just below the head on the block and you will have copied what GM did.

You can also get a stronger starter housing - there are still cast iron nose housing available. Or use a high torque starter - which have the billet aluminum noses.

I had a problem much like this on a chev pickup .... I resolved the problem by making it someone elses' problem but I did go through all of these on a variety of other vehicles and had much better results.

As for only on BBC.... I haven't had much luck with dealers since computers replaced their mechanics. Try one of the starter/alternator places for that brace.

I feel your pain. I had a 73 Blazer that was a starter nightmare. Finaly, one day I installed the starter without the solenoid on and engaged the gear by hand to see what was going on. The starter drive teeth were just barley engaging the flywheel. I busted bolts, and chewed starters and flexplates from that stupid thing, left me broke down a couple times.

After I discovered the real problem I filed and filed the starter housing down by hand until the teeth engaged properly, problem finaly solved.

If the starter moves away as it is tightened then it sounds like the surface is kind of rounded?? Maybe you could place a washer between the block and starter on one end?? If something like that would work then the shim/washer should be made to fit just right.

Another fix (not an easy one) would be to swich to a manual transmission. then the starter would bolt up to the bell housing. Major PITA, I know. But it might be better than scraping a new engine.

Good luck with that one.

Back to the original problem......
Checker (Vege) sold you a bad block, and they should be made to stand behind it.
You asked if a High Torque starter might work...
I'm assuming you have the starter where the bolts are not in a straight line, which means you have a 168 tooth ring gear, with staggered mounting bolts to mount the starter.
I have seen High Torque starters that have a dual, inline bolt pattern. It may be that one of these starters will solve your problem, because it sounds like the hole that's causing the problem wouldn't be used with that kind of starter.
JA

As 65 small block said, I did the same with my first lt1 engine ( 1971, brand new short block from GM) keap eating flex plates. with the trans out and the sol. removed, I pulled the starter Bendix in to mesh with the flex and saw that the starter wasn't going high enough to engage properly. I estimated how mush would have to be removed form the starter housing to get better engagement. Dismantled the starter and took it to a mach. shop and had about have what i thought should be removed taken off and went back and tried it again. Well I had closed the gap by haft, so back I went to the shop and removed the rest. It worked great. P.S. If you're keep-in the car, never change the starter again, have your's rebuilt and your worry's are gone.
If the gear (Bendix) hits the flex plate you can shim the starter down. Hope this helps someone.

thank you everyone.... some good ideas out there.... i'm headed out to get my mcguyver on. when i figure it out i will post so maybe it will help another.

Well, you've got a lot of good ideas. To keep from chewing up your plate or the starter pinion make sure your gears mesh properly when you're done. You want about .035" between the tip of the starter pinion gear and the valley of the flexplate gear. A standard size paper clip comes in at just about .035 and makes a handy tool to check with.

If you wind up grinding and go too far, as others have mentioned you can shim it out. Starter shim kits are available at almost any auto parts store, even Advance and Zone.

The hi-torgue mini-starters are sure a lot easier to swap in/out, but I'd go with a name brand if you decide to try one and you're going to keep the car for very long. I carry my cheap no-name as a spare in the trunk since I replaced it with a Power Master a few months back.

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John

after pulling the starter out completely, i noticed that the surface around the bolt holes on the starter itself are now damaged (my fault). lesson learned, don't use a washer for a shim ... ever. My parts guy is cool and said he would take it back. now . i got a good look at his parts book. lots and lots of different starters. i pointed out the amp4347. we called his rebuild guy and inquired. this particular starter came from a 350 engine but from a moving truck or school bus application. it has two holes for inline mount and some even come with a third hole to fill the offset mount. sounds pretty tough. it has a cast iron cone instead of the soft aluminum one that i crushed. it also fits deeper into the flywheel and uses the same 168 tooth. i will pick it up in the morning and see if it cures my problems. until then.

success...... cartwheel-cartwheel......starter sounds as smooth as butter. the new starter i bought was a pro amp 4347 for 74-66 gm family (heavy duty ) ht. it has a cast iron cone that fits farther into the engine so you get more gear on your flywheel and the straight across bolt pattern seems to stop the torque movement and required no shims at all. the cover over the flywheel needs a little shaving to compensate for the new starter but it has never sounded better. 30+ starts and nothing but smooth starts. i had to change the bolts to some shorter gm starter bolts i had laying around. so hopefully this will help someone out there with similar problems. what have i learned... 1. don't buy a reconditioned engine from checker. 2. if you do, mount the starter before you put the engine in the vehicle and test it for proper operation and fit. 3. never use a washer for a shim. 4. and most important... when buying parts, check for grease under the fingernails of the guy giving you advice.

Don't you just love it when everything comes together

How much was the core charge for the steel nose starter? They are getting very hard to find.