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Old 02-15-2013, 07:47 AM
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350 TBI build, cam and compression thoughts

Hello all, I am totally new to this forum and amazed by the knowledge that graces this site and am seeking some experienced input into an engine I will have built. Although I wish in a way that I was the one doing the hands on with this project, I've never build up an engine from top to bottom and don't feel like sitting on the side of the road far from home broken down because I pretended I knew exactly what I was doing !.

The vehicle in this case is a 1995 Chevy 1/2 ton extended cab short box 4x4, 350 TBI, 4L60-E auto with 3.73 ratio/265R75-16 tires. Typically I weigh over 6000 lb and with that factory horse power it has a hard time to get out of its own way and its used as a daily driver and sometimes pulling a small trailer. I now have 187000 miles on it and its having an issue with a weak cylinder due to worn valve guides according to a mechanics diagnosis as it misses at idle but still runs under load reasonably. Rather then refresh the heads which might be the most economical, the machine shop/engine builder locally warns me that increasing the compression on old rings may result in burning oil ... I don't know what to say to that as I've owned it since new and changed the oil every 3000 miles and plug in during the winter with a block heater installed on each cylinder bank. I also hear the cam shafts are prone to wear and could be a tail chasing ordeal to do just the top end.

So here's where the questions come in as I am thinking in terms of having an engine built which depending on who does it, may start from ether a brand new or used vortec vintage L31 block that is roller cam ready. The thinking is that the roller cam will not only give me more power but be more reliable vs the issues I keep hearing of with aftermarket flat tappet cams wearing and wiping lobes off, partly because they are more aggressive then this factory peanut cam and our oils that are missing ingredients they used to have. I want to keep the costs down to a reasonable level { everything seems insanely priced around here in northern Alberta } and not get too complicated so that it can't be reprogrammed. Finding someone to tune it will be an interesting feat all its own but hope it will run reasonably ok off the start until I can chase someone down to tune it better then a factory chip. I'll list out the components I am thinking in terms of using but feel free to make comments as this isn't a "sexy" build by any means, I just want it to do the best it can AND run on good old regular fuel ... lets call it farm fuel. The goal is to gain torque and horsepower but keep if not increase the off idle low end torque and gain mileage if anything as I don't intend to need power past its 4500 RPM governed red line. After all it only turns over at 1700 RPM down the road typically on the flat until I need to pass or gear down for a hill where it would rev higher although rarely over 4000

-Using that L31 block
-Retaining the stock style TBI cast heads with that swirl port design which is claimed to have a 64cc chamber size
-The factory intake and TBI size
-Stock cast exhaust manifolds
-Stock Y pipe although there is no Cat and the muffler is a low restriction unit
-Possibly the factory piston for the L31 which I hear is a 12cc dish style
-Cam wise I was looking at the Comp Cam model 08-500-8 which is "claimed" to be computer friendly although I assume the statement was meant for the actual Vortec/PCM unit and not my ECM OBD1 setup.
-1.5 ratio rocker arms and suggested to use the roller tip style to reduce side force on the valve stems.

Here is a link to that cam, http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=193&sb=2

So there could be choices of going to a flat top piston, forged vs not and what compression ratio I should aim for with a cam like this assuming its a good profile and if a thinner head gasket could help with the quench factor that I see talked about a lot on this site if the stock style pistons are used. The input so far from the mechanic that might assemble the engine is that he fears detonation if I do much of anything beyond going with that stock piston and compression ratio. GM "advertised" 9.4:1 with that piston in a Vortec engine/ 9.25:1 in the L05 block. An engine tuner who isn't in this area is pushing to put in those flat tops ... get that compression to at least 10:1 as " I can tune it " is his response in a rather chest puffed out manor. I tell the mechanic this and he's shaking his head. Me, I would like to do the right thing the first time rather then build a useless boat anchor that can't run on fuel I have to realistically work with or go the other way and not have a high enough DCR and loose any potential of making power or fuel mileage. I am fast learning that locally, these engine machine shops don't have cutting edge thinking and knowledge when it comes to matching up a cam to an engine as per not so happy customers with the end result, over cammed engines that stumbles around with little low end torque and idles horribly compared to what they wanted for a daily driven vehicle. By the way Comp Cams is what seems to be easier to get here but do question the quality as this isn't a billet cam but is of a cast type and a hardening surface treatment used on it. Any feed back on that as well.

Then I see it mentioned, static compression is one part of the equation but add in a certain cam profile and it can change the end result a lot due to dynamic compression dropping with a later opening cam. So lets say the engine gets stock pistons and the head is not shaved, the block deck height is stock. Could I benefit from a thinner head gasket assuming they don't have sealing issues { only from reading, the stock gasket may be .028 and a .016 available through aftermarket } and take that cam I listed and advance it 4 degrees for example to boost up my DCR and increase my low end torque in favor of some high RPM horsepower ? . That should give you all some thoughts to start from and to fill me in, to what makes the most sense.

I am sorry for this initial post being so drawn out but it may give you a better feel for what the goal is with my trucks new power plant. It would be sad to just drop in a GM Goodwrench engine with the same specs as my factory engine ... very unexciting to turn the key on that !.

Last edited by Northern Chevy; 02-15-2013 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:15 AM
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welcome to the forum.Alberta is no more expensive than any other part of Canada.I can find conections in Calgary if required. Post what you think is fair price for a rebuild?We all have different opinions as to what has priority.Fot a truck engine I like torque at a lower RPM and reliability.Then fuel economy also counts.At least your fuel costa are lower than what I pay in BC
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:44 AM
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price out this formula and see if you can afford more?
using the cam you posted
I would offset grind crank shaft 060. buy decent pistons to get 9.3 CR with which ever heads you choose.If you use vortecs then they need to be modified for the extra lift,or buy a set already done. I would just use the stock heads with quality machine work.I would put that cam in 2º early. Machine block as required for proper deck and square.Balance engine,hand fit piston to wall and bearing clearances and file fit rings.
Add small diameter long tube headers,full 2 1/2 inch true dual exhaust with X or H pipe.F.I. will likely need a chip.
I think you would have about 300 horses all in by 4800 and torque close to 385?
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:12 AM
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What vinnie said, the only way to "tune around" too much compression is to pull timing out which is not a good plan.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:18 AM
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What vinnie said, the only way to "tune around" too much compression is to pull timing out which is not a good plan.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Chevy View Post
Hello all, I am totally new to this forum and amazed by the knowledge that graces this site and am seeking some experienced input into an engine I will have built. Although I wish in a way that I was the one doing the hands on with this project, I've never build up an engine from top to bottom and don't feel like sitting on the side of the road far from home broken down because I pretended I knew exactly what I was doing !.

The vehicle in this case is a 1995 Chevy 1/2 ton extended cab short box 4x4, 350 TBI, 4L60-E auto with 3.73 ratio/265R75-16 tires. Typically I weigh over 6000 lb and with that factory horse power it has a hard time to get out of its own way and its used as a daily driver and sometimes pulling a small trailer. I now have 187000 miles on it and its having an issue with a weak cylinder due to worn valve guides according to a mechanics diagnosis as it misses at idle but still runs under load reasonably. Rather then refresh the heads which might be the most economical, the machine shop/engine builder locally warns me that increasing the compression on old rings may result in burning oil ... I don't know what to say to that as I've owned it since new and changed the oil every 3000 miles and plug in during the winter with a block heater installed on each cylinder bank. I also hear the cam shafts are prone to wear and could be a tail chasing ordeal to do just the top end.

So here's where the questions come in as I am thinking in terms of having an engine built which depending on who does it, may start from ether a brand new or used vortec vintage L31 block that is roller cam ready. The thinking is that the roller cam will not only give me more power but be more reliable vs the issues I keep hearing of with aftermarket flat tappet cams wearing and wiping lobes off, partly because they are more aggressive then this factory peanut cam and our oils that are missing ingredients they used to have. I want to keep the costs down to a reasonable level { everything seems insanely priced around here in northern Alberta } and not get too complicated so that it can't be reprogrammed. Finding someone to tune it will be an interesting feat all its own but hope it will run reasonably ok off the start until I can chase someone down to tune it better then a factory chip. I'll list out the components I am thinking in terms of using but feel free to make comments as this isn't a "sexy" build by any means, I just want it to do the best it can AND run on good old regular fuel ... lets call it farm fuel. The goal is to gain torque and horsepower but keep if not increase the off idle low end torque and gain mileage if anything as I don't intend to need power past its 4500 RPM governed red line. After all it only turns over at 1700 RPM down the road typically on the flat until I need to pass or gear down for a hill where it would rev higher although rarely over 4000

-Using that L31 block
-Retaining the stock style TBI cast heads with that swirl port design which is claimed to have a 64cc chamber size
-The factory intake and TBI size
-Stock cast exhaust manifolds
-Stock Y pipe although there is no Cat and the muffler is a low restriction unit
-Possibly the factory piston for the L31 which I hear is a 12cc dish style
-Cam wise I was looking at the Comp Cam model 08-500-8 which is "claimed" to be computer friendly although I assume the statement was meant for the actual Vortec/PCM unit and not my ECM OBD1 setup.
-1.5 ratio rocker arms and suggested to use the roller tip style to reduce side force on the valve stems.

Here is a link to that cam, 08-500-8 - XTREME Energy

So there could be choices of going to a flat top piston, forged vs not and what compression ratio I should aim for with a cam like this assuming its a good profile and if a thinner head gasket could help with the quench factor that I see talked about a lot on this site if the stock style pistons are used. The input so far from the mechanic that might assemble the engine is that he fears detonation if I do much of anything beyond going with that stock piston and compression ratio. GM "advertised" 9.4:1 with that piston in a Vortec engine/ 9.25:1 in the L05 block. An engine tuner who isn't in this area is pushing to put in those flat tops ... get that compression to at least 10:1 as " I can tune it " is his response in a rather chest puffed out manor. I tell the mechanic this and he's shaking his head. Me, I would like to do the right thing the first time rather then build a useless boat anchor that can't run on fuel I have to realistically work with or go the other way and not have a high enough DCR and loose any potential of making power or fuel mileage. I am fast learning that locally, these engine machine shops don't have cutting edge thinking and knowledge when it comes to matching up a cam to an engine as per not so happy customers with the end result, over cammed engines that stumbles around with little low end torque and idles horribly compared to what they wanted for a daily driven vehicle. By the way Comp Cams is what seems to be easier to get here but do question the quality as this isn't a billet cam but is of a cast type and a hardening surface treatment used on it. Any feed back on that as well.

Then I see it mentioned, static compression is one part of the equation but add in a certain cam profile and it can change the end result a lot due to dynamic compression dropping with a later opening cam. So lets say the engine gets stock pistons and the head is not shaved, the block deck height is stock. Could I benefit from a thinner head gasket assuming they don't have sealing issues { only from reading, the stock gasket may be .028 and a .016 available through aftermarket } and take that cam I listed and advance it 4 degrees for example to boost up my DCR and increase my low end torque in favor of some high RPM horsepower ? . That should give you all some thoughts to start from and to fill me in, to what makes the most sense.

I am sorry for this initial post being so drawn out but it may give you a better feel for what the goal is with my trucks new power plant. It would be sad to just drop in a GM Goodwrench engine with the same specs as my factory engine ... very unexciting to turn the key on that !.
II would make some recommendations that change this a little.

- 383 kit a 6000 pound truck just plain needs more torque to get moving. The 383 being a quarter inch stroker not only adds more torque and power by virtue of the size increase but the longer stroke emphasis’s the torque improvement on the bottom end where you need it.

- Vortec heads or a reasonable facsimile, many aftermarket models use the Vortec chamber with a conventional port which allows you to use your existing intake for the TBI. This does require you make an external connection to the exhaust manifold to operate the EGR if you're going to keep that functional. This is no big deal a fitting into the exhaust manifold/header tube connected to another in the exhaust crossover passage of the intake with a length of tube solves this problem. This type head picks up around 30 foot pounds and horsepower’s for no other change than bolting them on.

- The bigger size engine would actually like a larger TBI Holley makes a 670 CFM unit, the 454 used a Rochester of nearly the same size as well. These will certainly require a new chip for the computer but your cam change will most likely drive that as well so just catch it all at once. See TBI CHIPS on the web.

- Exhaust really needs to be headers and duals even with a 350. The factory exhaust is pretty restrictive; this requires the engine use power off the crankshaft to pump against the back pressure. That costs you money in fuel burnt to provide the pumping energy which is also power lost that could have been used to propel the truck. Long tube headers with 1-5/8ths inch tubes are suitable for either the 350 or 383. Dual exhaust or a single of 3 inch tube assists in the same function of moving the exhaust to the atmosphere at a minimum of back pressure. If you go with dual and are staying with cat converters, move them up as close to the collector as you can get them to keep em hot. Use an H pipe to tie the duals together just ahead of the cats, put the O2 sensor in the middle are of the H pipe. This will keep the computer working properly in closed loop operation for best mileage/power, and least emissions.

- For pistons use D dish to dial in the compression ratio while keeping the squish/quench deck tight at .040 to not more than .060 inch. The effectiveness of these functions goes down with reduced area and increased clearance. The D dish maximizes the area along with the step up of the piston crown minimizes the clearance to the head's step. This reduces octane requirement for the compression ratio, improves mileage and power, and minimizes HC and NOx emissions. I’d use a 4032 high silicon alloy forging for strength and temperature stability. This should be plenty adequate and then some for a truck and towing application while keeping the tight wall clearance possible with high silicon alloys which keeps the ring package better aligned to the cylinder wall. This reduces pressure losses to blow-by while minimizing oil consumption with the resulting combustion chamber contamination which brings increased risk of detonation.

- I do not like to reuse connecting rods, refurbished or not, especially the OEM sintered rod, these fail often enough to get on my crap part list. Eagle sells a couple very good and fairly inexpensive rods. The less expensive model of capscrew rod is 25700 at 5.7 inches and 26000 at 6 inches or 2570020 at 5.7 and 260020 at 6 inches this pair uses the ARP capscrew. All of these are bushed; I do use rods that have pressed in pins. A considerably up-strengthed rod equivalent to a competition level Lunati but very reasonably priced is the 25700716 in 5.7 inches and 2600716 in 6 inches with standard eagle cap screws. The 25700716 at 5.7 inches and 2600716 at 6 inches have upgraded ARP cap screws. These rods also are of the bushed pin type. When using bushed pins in the rods you also need to be sure the pistons are made for bushed pins, this is simply providing a groove at the pin bore ends to accept a retainer clip. The advantage in a bushed pin is that in heavy duty or competition use if the piston becomes overheated enough to grab the pin in its bore, a pin that is bushed on the rod has a back point of rotation so it will not seize busting the piston or rod or both. In today’s low oil flow motors this is a concern. Years ago there was an indexed oil stream from the rod onto the bottom of the piston for cooling and pin lubrication. This has been terminated and this function is a happening with whatever oil happens to fly off the crankshaft and land under the piston. The compensation is the use of high silicon alloy pistons like the factory hypereutectic cast piston. This works very well most of the time, but it only takes the once failure to ruin the motor. A risk that has a low frequency of occurrence but is highly expensive in result if it happens. Since you’re building the engine, why not just build the potential problem out, it only costs thinking time to do no extra money is involved.

Bogie
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:28 PM
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Thank you for reading my small book of an initial post vinniekq2 !

I should clarify my cost comment as it was rather vague and deals with where I am in Alberta for one thing { too much money around with the oil patch and shops that charge because they can } , and it seems easily obtainable parts are in Ontario or Vancouver ... perhaps Calgary as you suggest but not here. Then I go online and do a search of anything and its mostly mail order companies from the US where prices are far less until one realizes that customs will make sure they get more then their fair share ... not to mention shipping and insane wait times to get anything. It blows my mind to look at some of those engine build shops in the US and see a long block 383 that has fairly high end components { not the cheep thrown together engines } for 3500.00 as one example and is twice the engine that I am trying to get built.

As of yet due to waiting on this mechanic who would install an engine I come up with and I know does good work and he isn't connected to any engine machine shop, I haven't gotten too far. He has a brand new Vortec block, crank, pistons, con rods, roller lifters sitting there packed away and has it on his hands due to a past customer who ordered it for a river boat and then well ... passed on. So I am in limbo mode at the moment waiting for him to tell me yes or no if he will do the build and to give me a quote to see if it makes sense or not. Now the local engine machine shop is the next route I could take and have talked to them briefly to know that there price on a totally basic L05 long block rebuild with factory cam specs is 2500.00 and can get a GM Goodwrench new engine for that with a far better warranty. I haven't pressed him yet to give me a price on the sort of build I want and partly ... well you will find this insane but its like dealing with the Soup Nazi's of engine shops because he will not be a happy camper if I price it out and then don't follow through after wasting a few minutes of his time. Can you sense my frustration so far !. So it seems I will have to know exactly what I want before I walk through the doors and list it out for him rather then go too much on his knowledge and use his time. They are quite capable of balancing an engine though as they have that equipment and the mechanic highly suggests I pay the extra to do this as he will have that done "if" he builds the engine he has sitting there.

Also I called and emailed two engine shops in Edmonton and one just wanted to know how much I was willing to spend as I had not filled out that section in the form so I resend and chose the "2500.00 to 3500.00" ... and he never got back to me. The other shop I called and spoke to the one in charge of the shop and I laid out what I listed in my first post as far as the over all engine idea and using the aftermarket cam. But he wasn't into listing what components he would put into it such as the quality of pistons and if he would actually use new valves, rocker arms etc and was the stamped steel ones unless otherwise specified. So with all that vagueness on his part, it would be a balanced long block for 3000.00 that includes no tin of any sort or flex plate/harmonic balancer. Definitely no screw in rocker arm studs or anything special and what had me wondering also, he claims they "build" the roller lifters there. Tell me how a shop in Edmonton would have a reason to build such a specialized item like that.

I got taken away from typing this long post and see more replies. I've never actually heard of that, off setting a crank and wouldn't that mean a new crank designed that way from new to retain the journal diameters or is there something I am missing in that equation ?. Wouldn't it be more feasible to make the jump to the 383 crank at that point perhaps ?.

The popular thing I see mentioned often is installing Vortec heads on an L05 block but after reading about nightmares of trying to tune it with that GMPP manifold that is like gold through GM parts, the special exhaust manifold and pipe, EGR to make it all work just sounded like the wrong road to go down. That's why I thought the KISS principle in some ways might be better in the long run. The shop in Edmonton quoted me 4000.00 for a long block 383 but again I don't believe any balancing and I don't know what components was really being stuffed into it.

Headers, you would have to suggest a brand that doesn't leak or warp as I had my own bad experience years back and did put that bad taste experience in my mouth. Also I have to retain four wheel drive clearance and would the cross over design tuck up well enough ?

What brand and is this a forged piston you have in mind, and is it of a flat top design ?.

I am guessing the cam I was looking at could be a good candidate then and not worried about the material they make this line of Comp cam out of ?

Now theres one long reply ... apparently I talk too much !.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:32 PM
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My reply was slow in getting off the ground ... as is the engine project, so I missed replying to an overwhelmingly excellent reply. Nothing like a great personal introduction to others on a forum !.

It will take a bit to take a peek at the various parts suggested by part number as I am on dial up, very slow dial up I may add. A couple of comments in the mean time though.

A couple of weeks ago I had priced out the GMPP system to run the EGR and they wanted well over 1000.00 for an intake manifold, one exhaust manifold, a pipe and an EGR valve. Doesn't EGR enhance fuel mileage and drive-ability during our -40 winters but at the expense of power or am I all wrong on that line of thinking ? . I don't need Cats here, its hicksvlle to put it one way and the year of the truck doesn't seem to care as the O2 sensor works fine according to muffler shops that cut them out.

In speaking to the local NAPA, the person behind the counter who is right into performance tuning on the newer systems and has his own motorized toys and made a comment about how he ordered a set of headers from the states and it took a long time and they were 1000.00 for the set. Is that what is typically expected cost wise ?

Which length of connecting rod best fits a high torque 383 build ?
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:59 PM
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I will post tomorroe from work

my 361 will get 0_60 in your 6000# truck in 12_13 seconds

cheaper than boogies 383

355 is cheaper than my 361
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:17 PM
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I am laughing as I know we all eye those performance parts, those that posted of course because of their engine building experience but all those that come on a site like this and have eyes gloss over as larger cubes, more exotic metals with huge hp potential are hard to resist. I do want to get back to my original post thoughts in building a more economical alternative at some point but want to explore the 383 too.

About the heads mentioned, would I be correct in assuming aluminum and is there a brand and part number which is ideal and fits up with the TBI manifold, stock or otherwise.

Is there a brand of piston that I should look at as it would help to go onto that site and hopefully get more detailed information, even if its also for a standard 350 build. I can certainly see where a full floating assembly would keep that dreaded catastrophic failure from ever happening, makes perfect sense.

I had mentioned the Comp cam and a concern about the material that the lower end lift roller cam series is made from and here is a comment I found about the materials used in regards to the distributor gear material compatibility but doesn't get into the longevity of this cam

"Comp Cams has been using ductile-iron roller camshafts for some applications that are treated to an austempering process that leaves the lobes harder than the cam's distributor drive gear, which is not treated. This permits the use of a standard iron distributor gear. Crane Cams takes a different approach by using steel roller cams with pressed-on iron distributor drive gears, again allowing iron distributor gears "


Read more: Roller Camshafts - Car Craft Magazine
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:57 AM
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or
you get what you pay for
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:22 PM
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Hows that saying go ... "theres no replacement for displacement" and even though I haven't rebuilt an engine from top to bottom, just some head repairs and so forth, I do agree with that statement, as long as both were equally built properly.

Some of what my post was about and I am sure it got totally lost in my lengthy babble, its how you put the various parts together that can make the difference or just a slight change in cam choice for instance even if its just a rather bare bones type build. That is where you guys on here can give all sorts of insight to someone like myself !

Heres a good example, lets say two guys were given the same tools and engine parts with a few optional choices to build the same 350 and had access to an engine shop that would do the boring, decking, head work and balancing, so forth with a budget to work with. If there was any money left over between the budget and what the engine cost, the builder could pocket it ... great deal !.

So the first guy has that know it all attitude but nothing really ever works out right when he puts his hands on anything. He looks over his parts and goes for the cheep gasket set and happens the head gasket is thick in that set, doesn't get the engine balanced, never checked the ring end gap, uses used valve springs, used rocker arms, He doesn't degree the cam as he just lines up the dots and thats all she wrote. Puts some chassis grease on the cam lobes rather then the moly, decides to splurge a whole 10 bucks more on the oil pump and installs the high volume pump with the stock small engine pan as that should make it last longer he thinks... installs it into his fancy looking truck that has been freshly repainted. Doesn't drop the oil after the initial break in as thats like draining good oil down the drain he figures. He pockets a $ 1000.00 from going under the budget and has this cocky grin on his face.

The second guy looks over his parts and the first thing he does is calculate out what the static compression will be and if he can manipulate that to what he wants by machining or head gasket choices, how that relates to the dynamic compression of his cam and decides he can advance the degree of the cam to give up some high end hp but increase his bottom end torque and help it run better at higher altitudes, gets the machine shop to align bore the crank journals, hone with a torque plate, have them balance his engine. On assembly he checks all ring gaps and adjusts them as required, uses the moly assembly lube on the cam and lifters, goes for the more expensive gasket set that also gave him the head gasket thickness he was after to give a proper quench distance, uses new valve springs, degrees the cam, uses the standard volume oil pump meant for the stock oil pan, primes the engine oil system with the pump drive tool. Installs it into his truck that still has the original paint and showing some age. Fires it up and runs it at high idle to break in the cam properly and changes his oil and filter after the initial break in. He pockets $ 150.00 and thinks to himself, that will buy some flowers for the wife for Valentines and a nice meal out.

Fast forward a few thousand miles and these two guys have a race with their pickups. Guy number one is having valve floating issues with the springs that are weak although it doesn't matter because the cam is trying to wipe its lobes off due to a horrible break in, not to mention ring end gap is closing as one was too tight and had scuffed a cylinder wall and then a connecting rod goes through the side of the block anyway because his high volume oil pump starved the engine of oil at high rpm ... he coasts across the finish line. Guy number one stands there on the side of the road wondering what went wrong ... I did everything right !. Guy number two says, well at least you have a thousand bucks in your pocket and laughs although inside he is rolling his eyes.

I have a friend like guy number one ... what can I say. I don't think I'll get him to build my engine !.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:54 PM
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it might be cheaper to buy a gm crate engine
the 350 vortec truck replacement with all new parts is a whopping 1999.oo
it's all new parts and 3year 100000 mile warranty
http://paceperformance.com/i-6484921...-8600-gvw.html
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:25 PM
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I sigh as I think about how badly we get screwed over up here in Canada when it comes to a lot of parts and vehicle sticker prices, to name a few. Yup, I had looked at that very same crate engine and priced it out up here and the engine would be $ 3100.00 which I actually thought was good for here ... but then to add all the other items on that I listed to operate with the TBI and retain mileage and how it would run during our insanely cold winters so well over another $ 1000.00, but it doesn't end there as I have to find someone who can actually tune that setup and so far the feedback I've gotten is don't do it, you are not going to be happy as it won't run right. So I seemed to run into a brick wall there.

I can get the same old wimpy no horsepower L05 crate engine for $2400.00 up here but with any engine dropped in assuming I get a shop to do it rather then me jerk around and take forever with it being a daily driver .. well I can add another 1500 onto that and new manifolds or even if it was headers and water pump, block heaters etc etc, and I estimate it will end up being between 4500.00 and 5000.00 just to drop in a crate engine. It sounds insane and have to question my sanity even on that !. But that's why I thought if I would put a little more into it by upgrading to a roller cam, maybe that would be a middle of the road compromise, gain some power and call it done for the remainder of that trucks life ?

I guess you could say our horsepower and labor ends up costing a lot more up here, well where I am anyway.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:14 PM
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drive to Calgary and pre arrange to have it done.no reason for the truck to be down more than 2 or 3 days.
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