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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2010, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
Frisco,
thanks!!!

blue,
Frisco pointed out something important that I never mentioned you must always do....
(thread is now so long I have forgotten about everything I have posted)

you can either
set the base with the motor at the lowest rpms where it will still run (ignore the very rough idle it doesn't hurt anything) by backing off the idle linkage rpms screw then turn the rpms back up with the linkage screw once it is set
or
set the base at your normal idle rpms and then back off the idle rpms linkage screw to the lowest rpms possible till it barely runs (ignore the idle) and check to confirm with your light that it is still the same base setting
(to confirm there is no cent added at idle rpms)

PS: give the whole cent advance parts a shot of WD40 and double check that the wire leads have enough slack for full cent travel...

edit:
cobalt, no question 40 is to much,,,but with premium gas and his low CR it will "survive" till the cam change,,,(I have been preaching use 36 same as you all the way thru this thread)
LOL,,,I have a "belittled brain" so why not belittle it
Ah, got ya. Headed outta town in short for the weekend. It'l rest till late Sunday afternoon or Monday. You guys can have the weekend off...lol Go get some rest.

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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2010, 12:55 PM
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actually for this weekend,,,I'm hoping to get a huge dose of the best brain medicine in the world....

my grandkids!!!!

(grandpa might just take them both to the IHRA winternationals at Bradenton if the weather improves)
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2010, 01:21 PM
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here is a dyno tune results for a 383.

made max power with 40 degrees.


http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ing/index.html
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2010, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
made max power with 40 degrees.
That's all well and good- for every one of your 40 degree examples, I'll pull twenty that do it w/less.

The thing w/dynos is they do a good job of estimating power, etc. but a rather poor job of recreating actual over the road conditions- where the air temp is underhood-hot, the engine's lugging against a hill and a head wind, the gas might be a bit off that fill-up, etc.

Bottom line- 36 degrees is all the timing the OP needs, IMHO. If he wants to try 40 plus- go for it. There's always a re rebuild if things go badly...
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2010, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
LOL,,,I have a "belittled brain" so why not belittle it
I have a question that if you don't want to elaborate- I TOTALLY understand. But if I may so crass as to ask- what's up w/your "brain"?

Several times you've mentioned 'exercising' your brain or words to that effect and I was wondering if maybe you had an accident?

Not that your posts show ANY abnormalities, mind you- quite the contrary. You seem perfectly lucid to me, but it does beg the question...
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2010, 05:29 PM
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cobalt,
I don't mind answering except it is a complicated (diagnoses) answer/reply....

there is alot of clinical testing proof that "use it or loose it" does help slow brain rot (my all inclusive name choice for the condition)...

so that's what I mean by brain excercise...

Last edited by red65mustang; 02-13-2010 at 08:05 AM.
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2010, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
there is no simple (diagnoses) answer....
I hope it's not something that is going to become a real problem for you.

FWIW, I can see that I've "lost a step" in the memory/cognitive area- but I just chalk it up to my advancing age. Hopefully, we both have enough 'extra' to get us through...

Good luck.
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I know of no OEM SBC heads- even the worst smog-era heads- that require 40 degrees.

Well, now you know of a sbc engine that requires 40 degrees of timing for max power. isn't the internet great!
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
Well, now you know of a sbc engine that requires 40 degrees of timing for max power. isn't the internet great!
All that says is that the combustion chamber design and/or the squish/quench relationship isn't too great on that engine. Both my 327 with 492 heads, and my oval port semi-open chamber 427, did their best ETs with 36 total timing, and both of them were domed piston motors (which theoretically, should slow.flame travel).
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
Well, now you know of a sbc engine that requires 40 degrees of timing for max power. isn't the internet great!
The OP doesn't have the aluminum heads that were used in the magazine (or whatever it was) article you linked.

My statement: "I know of no OEM SBC heads- even the worst smog-era heads- that require 40 degrees.", is just as true now as it was when I typed it above.

Because some rag needed 40 (or 50) degrees of timing has no bearing on my statement, or the OP's build.
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  #176 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickracer
All that says is that the combustion chamber design and/or the squish/quench relationship isn't too great on that engine.
I would agree- plus the cam is 234/238 degrees duration at 0.050" and 0.539"/0.548" intake/exhaust lift, w/8.1:1 CR. A real well-matched set-up.

To show you what guru's this bunch at the magazine are, they changed the freaking power valve, hoping to gain power at WOT! LOL

Here's what they said: "For the final pull, we kept both the jetting and timing the same, but swapped out the stock 6.5 power valve for a larger 8.5 valve on the primary side of the Demon. The results didn't show any gains in the peak..." Gee, I wonder why!

"Larger power valve"?

Real sharp, that crew.
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  #177 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 05:31 PM
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Ok, then read this from "how to hot rod small block chevys"

http://books.google.com/books?id=g46...age&q=&f=false

they say 38 to 42 degree total advance for street engines and 38 to 40 for race.
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  #178 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
Ok, then read this from "how to hot rod small block chevys"

http://books.google.com/books?id=g46...age&q=&f=false

they say 38 to 42 degree total advance for street engines and 38 to 40 for race.
Well, that changes EVERYTHING!!!LOL
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  #179 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 06:51 PM
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Look, you can site all the ca. 1976-tech BS at me as you care to. I own that book- and I'm telling you now, it is VERY dated... it reads more like a comic book than a serious manual that one would follow to build an engine by.

However, all the time you've wasted trying to find anything to refute what I've stated, would be time better spent boning up on IC engine theory, or ignition requirements, or most anything else you can think of. But its your time to waste...

The 35-year-old quotes aside, altitude will effect timing, cam specs will, as will gas quality, piston and combustion chamber configuration, etc. But that does nothing to alter the fact that the OP does not need- nor should he use- 40 degrees BTDC total timing. Or that OEM SBC heads also do not require it.

The closest you could come would be pop up pistons (when is the last time- if ever- that you've seen a set?) used in an engine w/a TON of old-school solid lifter cam and too much intake and carb, set up to run WOT for 12 seconds at a time.

[img]removed due to huge size wasting b-w for a troll[/img]
You might notice the book is well worn- this is from all the years it has been kicking around. FWIW, I can go through this tome page by page and find you literally dozens of f-ups of one degree or another.

Last edited by cobalt327; 02-14-2010 at 03:04 PM.
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  #180 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2010, 07:11 PM
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Well, then it seems you did know of oem smogger engines that needed 40 degrees of timing. (since you have the book).

Don't worry about my time, it doesn't take hardly any time to find engines making peak power with 40 degrees of timing. especially smogger 350's.

I never said the OP should run 40 degrees of timing. Just said some old school small blocks needed 40 degrees of timing.
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