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  #241 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2010, 05:18 PM
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Here we go!

Dyno'ed My Jeep Today!

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  #242 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010, 09:18 AM
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I agree with the qjet approach. They are much more forgiving when climbing rocks and going off road. I just got mine dialed in and my truck runs better now than it ever did with the Edie. The single bowl helps allow the carb to be turn on its side and still run. Gas mileage will also improve some. The trick is to get it dialed in. SMI or Cliff's Performance would be a good choice to get one. I wouldn't by a used one off ebay unless you know it will work for your application or can make the changes. It took an LC-1 to get mine fine tuned. You can tell Cliff your application and he will build one for you to spec and test it. Only problem is he is 5 to 6 months out on rebuilds. he might have one in stock that will work.
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  #243 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2010, 09:07 AM
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blue,
(I'm trying to answer your PM here)
alot of this thread is centered around using Hg readings while driving normal to evaluate tuning changes...
(dyno test machine graph readings only evaluates/reports WOT full mechanical timing HP/TQ results)

soooo,
since the dyno tune and carb/pump replacement how much has that previously "yuch" low 55mph cruise Hg reading improved????
is it still dropping off some driving into a minor head wind due to air resistance?
need to know where your at now to answer the questions in your PM about gears etc...

and for all to know,,,did they correct the centrifugal to 20c and get the vacuum advance working????
(ign timing is/was the core problem from the beginning)

his WOT timing was set to 33* by the dyno shop (due to tires/gears/weight problem I agree with the choice)
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  #244 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
blue,
(I'm trying to answer your PM here)
alot of this thread is centered around using Hg readings while driving normal to evaluate tuning changes...
(dyno test machine graph readings only evaluates/reports WOT full mechanical timing HP/TQ results)

soooo,
since the dyno tune and carb/pump replacement how much has that previously "yuch" low 55mph cruise Hg reading improved????
is it still dropping off some driving into a minor head wind due to air resistance?
need to know where your at now to answer the questions in your PM about gears etc...

and for all to know,,,did they correct the centrifugal to 20c and get the vacuum advance working????
(ign timing is/was the core problem from the beginning)

his WOT timing was set to 33* by the dyno shop (due to tires/gears/weight problem I agree with the choice)
Engine start up, idle and hot restarts are a vast improvement. 55MPH issue is better but mainly no change....we already know why.

BAD NEWS is that I was wrong on my gear ratio unless the guts were replaced with 3.73 gears. Both front and read axles indicate 3.54 gears. That means its worse than we thought but the good news is that 4.10 gears may help....or of course the RV cam swap.

As for now I just wanted to know what it was doing as far as HP and TQ. 125mph test was kind of cool to me. Probably old news, no fun for you guys! BTW I like running up and down the runway at work...bet you guys can't do that...lol. The dyno test was not to improve anything. However, since I do have a new carb now, I want to get another test done.
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  #245 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2010, 03:55 PM
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Good to see you're making progress with the Jeep
What kind of carburetor do you have on it for now ?
I also noticed you were maybe planning a cam swap.
My friend has this cam - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-10004/ (can also be had as a summit brand) In his Toyota FJ Cruiser with 4.10's, 4 spd manual trans and 38" tires it runs like a bat out of hell. it's got really good low to mid range power, would probably work very well with your 3.54:1 gears.

Monzter.
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  #246 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2010, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monzter
Good to see you're making progress with the Jeep
What kind of carburetor do you have on it for now ?
I also noticed you were maybe planning a cam swap.
My friend has this cam - http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-10004/ (can also be had as a summit brand) In his Toyota FJ Cruiser with 4.10's, 4 spd manual trans and 38" tires it runs like a bat out of hell. it's got really good low to mid range power, would probably work very well with your 3.54:1 gears.

Monzter.
I read somewhere that the 700R4 likes 3.37 gears. I do not know if this is true or not. I want the best combo but will lean more towards the MPG side with 55-65mph performance. If I can get an RV cam and that alone improve my performance at 55mph, I'll settle for it. I wish I could get the 700R4 manual lock-out switch changed to inside the transmission with the solenoid. $$$ is just not cost effective right now.

I have the Summit 08600carb? I forget the numbers right now. Looks like a Holley 4010 but with float windows..

Mechanic told me he seriously thought I had a 220 Duration, 470 Lift cam....what ever that means to you guys!

Actually I wish I had $2,800 for a fuel injection kit from Sumit!
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  #247 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2010, 07:12 AM
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blue,
your PM said the mechanic set the cent for 33*t all in at 3500,,,are you sure???
(it was all in/factory set at approx 2600? as I recall)

did they re-set/correct the cent adv to be 20*'s ???
(it was 26-28? according to your tests posts info)
timing would be 13b+20c=33t now with the cent corrected...

did they correct and hook up the new vac adv unit to add to the 55mph cruise cent timing???
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  #248 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
blue,
your PM said the mechanic set the cent for 33*t all in at 3500,,,are you sure???
(it was all in/factory set at approx 2600? as I recall)

did they re-set/correct the cent adv to be 20*'s ???
(it was 26-28? according to your tests posts info)
timing would be 13b+20c=33t now with the cent corrected...

did they correct and hook up the new vac adv unit to add to the 55mph cruise cent timing???
He did not tell me if he corrected it. I am sure he did not. He told me he set the timing at 3,500rpm to 33deg. Shifting into 55 on the go is fine but cruising at 55 is the same as before. With and RV cam, corrected or replaced distrib, I think she will run great!!
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  #249 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2010, 06:56 AM
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blue,
thanks for the clarification,,,he set it to 33t "with the motor steady at 3500" is a big difference....

it for sure sounds like the fuel pump was crapping out (check valve leaking) but,,, a part of why it starts easy now is:
you are again back to approx the ign timing settings that the first mechanic set it to: 33t-26c= only 7*base approx
(more base is more counter resistance to rotation due to more Hg)

I can't recall the 55mph rpms in OD but it was way less than 2600 (cent all in) so there is not enough timing present at that speed with cent only added to get a decent Hg with your cam....
(there was a small chance the Edie was contributing to low Hg but that's now ruled out)

anywho,,,agree,,,drive it as is,,,, till the the hole in your wallet recovers some....

re: gears and tires and mph
32" tall tires means you are a special case for gears selection so be careful with interpeting what you read...
here's a whole set of calculators so you can plug in exact values to determine results (to determine what you do have and maybe do want):
http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm

I wouldn't spend time researching it now....
not until you do at least have the dist fixed (!!!!!) and then only after/if a cam swap and tune up results are known...
(you may hit a point of diminishing returns where the expense is not worth the gain,,,the vac gauge will tell you)

if/when gears is a needed consideration,,,,start a thread in the drive train forum...
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  #250 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2010, 03:39 PM
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Great info, thanks Red!
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  #251 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2010, 01:33 PM
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Ok, back on topic!

Going to get the cent checked on the distrib Monday morning as well as the vacuum advance. Once that is confirmed, I'll start over...;-)
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  #252 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2010, 04:40 AM
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LOL but serious...
take the new Sears timing light with you so the mechanic can test/compare readings with the his light...

if possible,,,stay there and observe how and what he does....
(or atleast take a few minutes so he can demo what he does)

it's not starting over,,,he confirmed the motor behaves like it has a 220@ 50 duration cam,,,, so he will be setting the timing to be about 16b+20c+ about 10-15v = 46-51tt

DO mention to him when you get there,,,, the combo of 32" tires/gears and OD ratio is way low 55mph cruise rpms (for the cam power band) and the Hg is only showing 10-12 on a level road and drops with a minor head wind...

"that" makes a difference for how he may want to set up the dist...
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  #253 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2010, 12:14 PM
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Decided not to dyno this time. The timing was way off. Was set to 53deg at 3,500rpm. Surprised I didn't break anything. The driver usually puts up with the vehicle, this time its the vehicle putting up with the driver...lol Funny, it started fine when hot too!

Mech reset the timing to 34deg at 3500 with a base at 10deg. Now that should be 10+27=37deg+14"= 51tt 37 is still higher than the set 34 but thats what he told me. He said the vacuum advance was set, working and pulling 6deg. Also said it looked like the mechanical was set to 27deg.

With all that reset and with the new Summit carb, I no longer have that hesitation as I did with the Eddi. Everything else is about the same.

So I guess its case closed till I get some gears and or an RV cam! It looks like I have 3.54 gears and not 3.73 gears. Should be able to get an extra 300rpm+ if I go with the 4.10 gears. This should push from 1,500 rpm at 55mph to 1,800rpm which is were I get some power. I may end up with an RV cam too. This Hot Rod stuff is getting on my nerves...lol
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  #254 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2010, 09:43 AM
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hey,
be happy you only have to deal with one 500lb gorilla (the cam) and you already know how to beat it (re-work the centrifugal to 20 so the base can be 16 to make the cam happy)....

the obstacle is finding a time "window" that the Jeep can be down to get it done...

in the mean time,,,, don't use OD when you want better performance (to get the motor rpms and timing into the cam powerband)...
that IS the same results as having deeper rear gears and/or shorter tires....
1.0 ratio 3rd tranny gear x 3.54 rear gear "is" 3.54 final ratio
4th gear .70 ratio OD x 3.54 rear gears "is" 2.47 rear final ratio when in OD...
just food for thought:
you "could" put even taller tires on it and never use OD to get the cruise/mpg rpms where you do want them since you don't race once the timing is corrected....
(lot's of ways to skin a cat!!!!)

the yuch low 55mph Hg isn't really hurting anything except mpg when just cruising...

after another couple of weeks pull a couple of plugs to see if the jetting on the new carb is reasonably close to correct,,,some tan on the insulators....

otherwise,,,take a break,,, go do some other "fun" thing,,,"Rome wasn't built in a single day"

PS: 3.54 is a little better than the 3.31 you posted way back in this thread...

Last edited by red65mustang; 04-07-2010 at 09:48 AM.
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  #255 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2010, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
hey,
be happy you only have to deal with one 500lb gorilla (the cam) and you already know how to beat it (re-work the centrifugal to 20 so the base can be 16 to make the cam happy)....

the obstacle is finding a time "window" that the Jeep can be down to get it done...

in the mean time,,,, don't use OD when you want better performance (to get the motor rpms and timing into the cam powerband)...
that IS the same results as having deeper rear gears and/or shorter tires....
1.0 ratio 3rd tranny gear x 3.54 rear gear "is" 3.54 final ratio
4th gear .70 ratio OD x 3.54 rear gears "is" 2.47 rear final ratio when in OD...
just food for thought:
you "could" put even taller tires on it and never use OD to get the cruise/mpg rpms where you do want them since you don't race once the timing is corrected....
(lot's of ways to skin a cat!!!!)

the yuch low 55mph Hg isn't really hurting anything except mpg when just cruising...

after another couple of weeks pull a couple of plugs to see if the jetting on the new carb is reasonably close to correct,,,some tan on the insulators....

otherwise,,,take a break,,, go do some other "fun" thing,,,"Rome wasn't built in a single day"

PS: 3.54 is a little better than the 3.31 you posted way back in this thread...
You bet!!! BTW what is a good running temp? This thing gets to 210deg quick in the summer without lockup or when at a stop. I can cool down to about 195 at a red light but it does peak quick if not careful!
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