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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 06:02 AM
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monzter,
wow 17" with a torker!!!!
LOl,,,if you had done a downshift vacuum test,,,it would have pegged the gauge past 32Hg which is outer space total vacuum...
(some oem motor parts combos can/will pull 28-29Hg with a dual plane)

blue,
fair chance you do know this but that vac gauge in the car is a excellent super sensitive "check engine light" while driving to show immediately any changes in the motor literally from almost any possible problem source...
you do want to know a "known best possible idle Hg" for a very low rpms reference point because motors behave different at very low rpms....

adjust idle Hg is the last step,,,
and a really nice feature of the Edie (for troubleshooting) is it has a "at idle only" independent fixed quantity fuel feed circuit so only changing the mix screws would show a gauge reading change....
weak link on the idle circuit is the 2 (exposed to dirt) air bleeds,,,they are the 2 tiny brass tubes next to the rods cap's...
if they get clogged the motor will idle very rough and not respond to changing the screws....
(short blast with the spray can tube attached of brake cleaner/carb cleaner/wd40/whatever will clear them 90%+ of the time)

PS: the 13.5 idle could maybe/possibly be due in part to how the cam was installed for advance/retard and how much advance is built into that specific cam....
that's not a problem,,,just a PIA to figure out what best hg is possible...

PDF instructions says accel dist module wants "0" ohms resistance supply,,,,verify with a meter that volts to/at the module matches alt output volts (.4V max loss in the harness is my limit allowed tuning ign in a car)

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue84JeepCJ7
Pending my actual mechanical timing mine could be,
16 degrees of initial
29 degrees at idle (initial plus vacuum)
53 degrees at cruise (initial plus vacuum plus mechanical)
40 degrees at Wide open throttle (initial plus Mechanical)
The last one that I highlighted is the only place where I see a possible problem- that's a bit high. You can easily tone that down to 36. If you do, take the 4 degrees from the mechanical, not initial.

What RPM is the mechanical all in by?

AFA the TCC lock up goes, you can easily run a vacuum switch that will disengage it when the vacuum drops below a preset value.

I keep going back to the photos of the Jeep . Are you gonna put some miles on the highway w/it? Or more for show or off road?
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 06:46 AM
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re:I just read post #30!!!
wish you had posted that at the beginning,,,fair chance your vac gauge is not calibrated correct or it's leaking....
(garbage in=garbage out for reference points)

3.73 and OD is less motor load/higher Hg at 70 than eom typical 3.08 and OD....
Hg on the oem is typically 18Hg+ at 70,,,no load on the motor in the garage shows approx 20Hg at the 70mph +OD motor 2k? rpms=a healthy happy motor and drive train....

poor acceleration "power" at 70 can be timing and carb tuning,,,air resistance can be about 2-3Hg (motor load) difference at 65 or 70 but so far all your readings are consistantly off typical=bad gauge?

go borrow a gauge to compare readings idle, downshift, and 70mph...
(and WOT should show 2-5Hg due to 600cfm/350)
quick check compare for the downshift results is in park spin the motor up to 2500+ and really quickly release the gas pedal will show the 25Hg as the no load rpms comes down...

edit: I just watched the video,,,gauge does show 25Hg decelerating so the sealing test is valid...

re: your "40" mech total:
with your rear gears and weight anything above 36 total is not worth the (detonation) risk!!!
blink your eyes really quick just once,,,that is roughly 1/10th of a second and is darn close to the actual 0-60mph ET total time difference between 34-36 and 40 total timing!!!
if it is a 8.5CR motor when tuned correct you should be able to burn 87 octane no problem with 34 total!!!

Last edited by red65mustang; 01-19-2010 at 07:40 AM.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
The last one that I highlighted is the only place where I see a possible problem- that's a bit high. You can easily tone that down to 36. If you do, take the 4 degrees from the mechanical, not initial.

What RPM is the mechanical all in by?

AFA the TCC lock up goes, you can easily run a vacuum switch that will disengage it when the vacuum drops below a preset value.

I keep going back to the photos of the Jeep . Are you gonna put some miles on the highway w/it? Or more for show or off road?
Its my daily driver 25 miles one way every day to work! As I said earlier, I am an aircraft mechanic and was actually building my own airplane. After eight years, I sold what I built and bought the Jeep with what I sold the airplane for! The airplane was an 82% scale 1933 Army Biplane fighter called a "P-6E Hawk" buildt by Curtiss.


Here is another one built by a friend.


Engine is a 383 Stroker.


Here is a photo of the real McCoy!
Although technically it is a full scale replica.


I have rebuilt several airplanes. This was my 1937 Fairchild 24G.


To make a long story short, after being around airplanes all my life, airplanes are for rich guys, I'll stick to the Jeep! Now I just have to learn the technical stuff!

Last edited by Blue84JeepCJ7; 01-19-2010 at 03:36 PM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:40 PM
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Red65Mustang - Yes the engine in the Jeep was really solid, I didn't know about single plane intakes affecting vacuum, and also didn't know about the vacuum test by down-shifting

But '84 CJ7 have you worked the bugs out of your Jeep yet ?
Beautiful Jeep you got there, and nice to see another Jeep guy here

Best regards
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monzter
Red65Mustang - Yes the engine in the Jeep was really solid, I didn't know about single plane intakes affecting vacuum, and also didn't know about the vacuum test by down-shifting

But '84 CJ7 have you worked the bugs out of your Jeep yet ?
Beautiful Jeep you got there, and nice to see another Jeep guy here

Best regards
I have been driving it for almost a year! Thats why I am concerned about the timing. Have I just been lucky?...lol Yeah, I almost have all the bugs gone!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue84JeepCJ7
Its my daily driver 25 miles one way every day to work! As I said earlier, I am an aircraft mechanic and was actually building my own airplane. After eight years, I sold what I built and bought the Jeep with what I sold the airplane for! The airplane was an 82% scale 1933 Army Biplane fighter called a "P-6E Hawk" buildt by Curtiss.

Engine is a 383 Stroker.
*! !*

How does that work AFA inspections, etc. to use an automotive engine in a plane?

I've heard of VW's, Corvairs, even a 215 Buick- but NEVER a 383 stroker!

Bad-A looking planes, BTW. Way outta my league, too, unfortunately.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:49 PM
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I just checked the total timing buy marking the balancer 10% of the 25 1/4 circumference. When I did this, the "new" 36deg mark I made is dead on the "0" on the timing indicator tab!

Now what? lol
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
*! !*

How does that work AFA inspections, etc. to use an automotive engine in a plane?

I've heard of VW's, Corvairs, even a 215 Buick- but NEVER a 383 stroker!

Bad-A looking planes, BTW. Way outta my league, too, unfortunately.
It is in the "Experimental" category. With that, you can do anything to them you so desire. Before it can be flown for the first time ever, it must be inspected by the FAA. Once that is done, you can still change things. However, it must be inspected by the builder, A&P Mechanic, AI or someone with those type credentials every year.

That particular airplane did not have a gear reduction so max power that could be used was at 3,000rpm. That engine produced 253hp@2,700rpm. Anything turning faster put the prop blade
tips past supersonic and could destroy the prop! You could use a gear reduction and turn the engine up to max (6k-9k?) However, I do not to fly it like that.....yeeeooouuchhh!
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang
monzter,
blue,
fair chance you do know this but that vac gauge in the car is a excellent super sensitive "check engine light" while driving to show immediately any changes in the motor literally from almost any possible problem source...
lol, funny you say! First thing folks ask me when they see that big vac gage is exactly "trying to save gas?". I laugh and say "No, thats a poor mans check engine light!".
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue84JeepCJ7
I just checked the total timing buy marking the balancer 10% of the 25 1/4 circumference. When I did this, the "new" 36deg mark I made is dead on the "0" on the timing indicator tab!

Now what? lol
This w/the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, I'm going to assume. So, where is the initial timing at, and is it enough so that the engine's 'happy'?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
This w/the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged, I'm going to assume. So, where is the initial timing at, and is it enough so that the engine's 'happy'?
Just for kicks I tried it again but both plugged and unplugged. Nothing changed. You think the Vac Adv is disconnected inside the distributor?

Also put the vac adv on the manifold port and nothing changed.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
T
AFA the TCC lock up goes, you can easily run a vacuum switch that will disengage it when the vacuum drops below a preset value.
I did try that a few months ago. I just couldn't get it set so I sold the switch on ebay! It was like $40, think I sold it for $20.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue84JeepCJ7
Just for kicks I tried it again but both plugged and unplugged. Nothing changed. You think the Vac Adv is disconnected inside the distributor?

Also put the vac adv on the manifold port and nothing changed.
If the vacuum ports are for sure supplying vacuum, the diaphragm might be leaking or like you said- disconnected. You should be able to make the vacuum advance move by drawing on it by mouth, if you don't have a MityVac or similar vac. pump.

Now sometimes, if the timing is VERY advanced, you can have a situation where more timing won't increase the engine idle speed.

You should try checking it w/the timing light, if you aren't already. If you are and still no advance, we're back to a faulty or disconnected vac. adv.

Wasn't this a new dist. or am I mistaken?
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2010, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
If the vacuum ports are for sure supplying vacuum, the diaphragm might be leaking or like you said- disconnected. You should be able to make the vacuum advance move by drawing on it by mouth, if you don't have a MityVac or similar vac. pump.

Now sometimes, if the timing is VERY advanced, you can have a situation where more timing won't increase the engine idle speed.

You should try checking it w/the timing light, if you aren't already. If you are and still no advance, we're back to a faulty or disconnected vac. adv.

Wasn't this a new dist. or am I mistaken?
The distributor is older but new pick up coil and module. This is part of my concern. The mechanic re-timed the initial but uncertain about mechanical. I do know the vacuum advance was working about six months ago when I checked the timing the first time. I hated to call the guy and ask. I didn't want to appear to be questioning his ability or over showing my ignorance, but what I do know is that it did not run like it did or does now when I got it back from him.
When I picked it up from him the first time, the engine would almost quit when it changed into second gear. Then when I tried to restart it when I got back to his shop, it kicked back. I left it with him and he said he would recheck the regulator-to-pickup gap. He said he drove it before I picked it up but there is no way he could have done that with it running, or lack there-of, the way it was! I wish I knew where I could get it on a computer test bed but I am idealess! lol
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