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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:47 PM
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Not speaking for OB, but I believe you'll find the 5.7L TBI swirl port heads and the Vortec heads have comparable chamber volumes- usually advertised as a nominal 64cc.

And welcome to Hotrodders!

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Old 12-21-2011, 07:23 PM
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Regardless of which intake manifold you use, there's an issue to be sorted out as noted by OldBoogie, the EGR deal.

Are there any Engine Machinists in here who might know if the Vortec Heads can be drilled to allow EGR flow, or is the exhaust manifold plumbing idea more feasable ?

Vortec Heads do NOT have crossover heat passages, so there is no exhaust to provide to the EGR.

Quote:
The manifold has a special water passage under the plenum to keep the fuel vaporized

The drawback to Vortec heads on a TBI engine is the need to plumb gases from the exhaust manifold to the EGR valve.
GM recommends using the '96 exhaust manifold (PN 12557828),
EGR pipe (PN 10220275),
and EGR valve (PN 17052693).
http://www.customclassictrucks.com/techarticles/0405cct_vortec_cylinder_heads_small_block_chevy/index.html


As copied from another site, the TBI heating issue from water is addressed by GM with the manifold.

Hangeth-On, there, I am positive that in due time, resolutions to each of these issues will be forthcoming.

DrVette
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2011, 07:50 PM
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GM used factory TBI adaptors for 4bbl manifolds on the earlier 454's. Holley makes the same adapter.. Holley #17-45. Have EGR tuned out, or get '96-'98 manifolds and EGR tubes. It's a common swap.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:32 PM
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well i actually have another option i have an older bare block casting # 3970010 that i also considered turning in to a tbi motor by using my tbi intake and swirl port head. nowdo you guys think this would be a better an more cost -effective build instead of going to the vortec?
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:56 PM
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Last edited by cobalt327; 12-21-2011 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Redundant.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekcbeast
well i actually have another option i have an older bare block casting # 3970010 that i also considered turning in to a tbi motor by using my tbi intake and swirl port head. nowdo you guys think this would be a better an more cost -effective build instead of going to the vortec?
That's all well and good if you don't want the advantages- and hassle- of using Vortec heads. But you'd also get a hydraulic roller cam and 1-piece rear main seal. To me it's a step or two backwards to use an older 2-piece RMS block and if it needs "the works", it won't be cheaper than the Vortec long block unless the Vortec needs everything, too.

I had thought this was a performance upgrade, not just getting something into the truck that will run. At the end of the day it's up to you to decide how to spend your time and money.

Good luck.

Last edited by cobalt327; 12-21-2011 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
GM used factory TBI adaptors for 4bbl manifolds on the earlier 454's. Holley makes the same adapter.. Holley #17-45. Have EGR tuned out, or get '96-'98 manifolds and EGR tubes. It's a common swap.
I have a set of '97 Vortec exhaust manifolds and the EGR supply piping for photos if needed. Headers could be plumbed too, I suppose. The OEM parts would make life easier, though.

The casting number of the left manifold w/the EGR tube fitting is 24673. The right is c/n 24172.

Last edited by cobalt327; 12-21-2011 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
The easiest way to go about this will be to use a Vortec TBI intake to reuse the TBI unit from the '87 on the Vortec engine. Reuse the sensors from the '87 on the '97 Vortec engine as well.

The spider/poppet EFI set up used on the '97 Vortec isn't a favorite among builders, anyway- even though they work OK for a stock or mild application. You could use a TBI adaptor (others are available, I believe Trans-Dapt are the least expensive) on a Vortec carbed intake instead of the GMPP TBI Vortec intake, this option could be cheaper if you can find a used Vortec carb intake.
Link above is broken,

(click on image for more info)
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:09 PM
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Megasquirt !

MegaSquirt | Engine Management System | Electronic Fuel Injection - DIYAutoTune.com

With what you've described, the Vortec is a running engine with a good harness and sensors. If that is the case, then for less than $600 grab a MSII with the relay board and cable.

You will never need to burn a chip and hope the chip PROM was good, not just functional (good is the enemy of better and best.) You can eliminate emissions functions or keep them OR, the best part, keep them on the engine and turn them off until you head to the inspection station. Grab a wideband O2 sensor and then you can tune for mileage much better than the stock ECM ever could. Basically you can tune for AFR ratio's better for mileage in cruise condition and better for torque and horsepower in performance situations.

If you use a 97 4L series transmission, then an MSIII is capable of running the engine and trans. I assume your TBI setup is running a 2004r/700r4 old scholl mechanical other than for maybe road speed and TCC - the MSII can handle both.

$600 bucks sound like a lot of jing, but how much are you going to spend in ECM chip programming just to get a stock running unit.

I want to be sure that I sound respectful to these guys that have offered advice as I've followed alot of their posts for quite some time and these guys know their poop, but...........I think that if you start adding up prices on swapping parts from the two different engines and/or buying parts to do the swaps, and then compare that price to the Megasquirt pricing you'll find the MS cheaper or at least comparable. And also consider that you can swap in the running Vortec which is way more motor than the TBI long block.

And the best part is the datalogging and tunability - NO comparison. FYI - the software and firmware is FREE to everyone, and system is able to handle boost/nitrous control and timing control at the same time while still being a daily driver.

DIYAUTOTUNE's support is great also. Good luck. Sounds like a great swap that I'd love to try.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 08:38 PM
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I apologize for posting to this thread w/o warning that it was old. I should have said something in my last post- my mistake.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
I apologize for posting to this thread w/o warning that it was old. I should have said something in my last post- my mistake.
don't it brought it to the top and some of this will help me..
(I s__k at search)
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrVette View Post
OldBoogie,

Aren't the 5.7L - Vortec Combustion chamber volume 64cc ?

and the 5.7L - 87-95 TBI heads 76cc ?

You are quite correct this would resolve a major hurdle, however it would take a competent machine shop to shave the heads on an "angle-cut" to resolve the major lack of compression.

Sorry, for the lack of understanding the adapter from MPFI to TBI deal

Edit to say:
Thanks guys for the lack of lighting me up with a 55gl trash bag full of acetylene
Interpretation, thanks for not Flaming Me as a N00b here
A need to check the head casting; there are two variations of the swirl port the 14102191 has a 76 cc chamber but is usually only found on 3/4 ton with tow package and heavier trucks with the 190 horse 350. The 14102193 casting is found on 1/2 ton models and 3/4 ton without tow package with the 207 horse 350. Other than the heads the engines are the same except the 207may have 2 or 4 bolted mains where the 190 will only be 4 bolt mains. But GM is given to some inconsistancy so looking at the part is the only positive way to be sure.

Bogie
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