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Old 12-29-2004, 03:13 PM
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351 cleveland

i am wanting to put a 351 cleveland in a 63 ford falcon does any one have any ideas or suggestions on how and can it be done without major modifications.

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Old 12-29-2004, 04:42 PM
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It will need major modifications to fit, no question about it. SBF's are a tight fit in that engine compartment never mind a Cleveland block.
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Old 12-29-2004, 07:26 PM
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As 4 Jaw said it will require some major modification. You have several ways to go though, I'll list 3. First the most minimalist way would be to slice the shock towers open as close to the spring as possible and plate it over, you will still have the poor suspension, which if is a 6 cylinder will need upgraded to at least V8 stuff. Or you can do what we used to do when installing 427s, cut the whole tower out,remove all the suspension and replace it with an early Econoline axle ( although now you could probably get a nice dropped I-beam) and make an early Gasser look. The one I would suggest is to buy one of the several new crossmembers to install an MII front end. You could plate over the shock tower holes and have an open engine compartment, plus have good suspension geometry,rack and pinion steering and could put some big disc brakes on it. Stopping is often overlooked in the need for speed.
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Old 12-29-2004, 10:29 PM
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engine swap

One other thing you will want to do is put in stub ties to tie the front and rear stubs together, other wise that cleveland will twist that chassis like a pretzel.
Before you go shoehorning that cleveland into your falcon, what engine do you have in it now? if its a 260 V-8, you will be able to use the stock engine mounts, which will be a big help in positioning the engine.
Measure across the front of your cleveland to the widest points on the engine and compare them with the width of your engine bay. I dont know about 63's but I have a friend with a 66 Falcon, and he dropped a 351C in it with no modifications to the front spring towers at all. He had enough room.

Food for thought, the 63's came out with the 260 V-8 in them, which has the same external dimensions as a 302.
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Old 12-30-2004, 06:54 AM
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The '66 has a little more room, the towers are not as intrusive.
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Old 12-30-2004, 07:31 AM
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Your trying to put a size twelve foot in a size 6 shoe....

Race only, on a trailer, .........go for it, keep cutting till it fits.

Otherwise, I agree with Max, build a (roller?) 302 , you will be 100+ lbs. lighter/better traction and probably quicker.

Plan "B", pick a different chassis, use the Cleveland if it's mainly a street driver.
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Old 12-30-2004, 08:50 AM
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351C

A thought crossed my mind, a 351W would fit a lot easier, as it will go just about anywhere an SBF fill fit, and with all the aftermarket heads, would perform as well or better than a comparable 351C, and be 25 lbs lighter in the front in the process.

Weights and measures.

221-302/ 351W/351C are all the same length.
small block weighs 460 lbs
351 W weighs 525
351C weighs 550

Winsor is approximately 1 1/4 inch taller than the SBF
Winsor is approximately 2 inches wider than the SBF
Cleveland is approximately 4 1/2 inches wider

The 302 would be the easiest swap since the engine bay was made with its dimensions in mind (re: 260).

Not sure if it would be as quick with a 302 in comparable battle dress, but as a 347, no contest.
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Old 12-30-2004, 10:15 AM
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point of diminishing returns?

The car is light and weak (2700lbs? designed for no power- mpg) and crummy suspension to begin with. Only good thing is it is a fairly short wheel base.

The extra 50+ft/lbs with a 351 or 347 can cost a bunch of $$$ in chassis mods.

Race: use the Cleveland, bigger valves and stronger bottem end. Ask Max how to make the oiling work???

Street: 302, loose another 100 lbs with aluminum intake/heads etc., 280hp/300ft/lbs/2700lb car/3.50 gears, plenty quick 0-60 and rides decent
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Old 12-30-2004, 10:47 AM
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Flying Falcon

Back in High School, one of the teachers lived across the street from me, and he had a 63 Falcon Sprint. That was the sporty fastback with bucket seats and the 260 V-8. I dont know what all he had done to it but it had a 4 speed and was stoked up a bit.
It did embarrass a lot of cars with engines 100 and more cubes larger.
The one thing I know for sure that he did do to it was he put stub ties in it to prevent chassis twisting, and that worked real well.
The flex in the chassis is the biggest problem with them, as it is with all those unibody jobs.


SMAX, if you want to know an easy and inexpensive way to cure the oiling problem with the Cleveland, give me a hollar.
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Old 12-30-2004, 03:11 PM
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351 c

thanks a bunch, i believe i will try the 302 and save the cleveland for something else. this car had the six cylinder originally. i like the idea of changing the suspension to must. 2 thanks again for the advise.

i am interested in solving the oil problem. thanks again

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Old 12-30-2004, 03:27 PM
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engine swap

Im curious what transmission you have in your mustang?

Does your car have 4 or 5 lug wheels?
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Old 12-30-2004, 03:59 PM
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smax,

just to be clear,
a 302 is a bolt in swap and you can upgrade to the Falcon 260-V8 brakes and suspension as a bolt in swap. (Probably just stock 63' Fairlane V8 parts).

you don't need the Mustang II front end.
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Old 12-30-2004, 08:45 PM
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suspension upgrades

that is correct, on the suspension upgrades.
According to my interchange book, the V-8 and 6's all used the same front springs, but the inner and outer tie rods, spindles, and front brakes are different.
Rear leaf springs are the same for both the V-8 and 6's, but the rear end is different.
The V-8 models all had 5 lug rims, vs the sixes with 4 lug.
The Comet, Falcon, Mustang, and Cougar, from 63-69 all used the same 8 and 9 inch rear ends. That should help in locating a rear.
63-65 Falcon, 64-65 Comet, 65-66 Mustangs use the same upper and lower control arms. 63-64 Falcon and Comet use the same spindles for the V-8's.

Hope this helps you in finding parts to swap out.
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Old 12-31-2004, 03:59 AM
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smax,

and because the upper/lowers match the Mustang you can do the Granada disk brake conversion rather than just bigger drums

about the same cost , just gettin' harder to find "Gradadas" in the yards.

also be aware, you can fit 2 1/2" front drums on the rear in place of the 1 3/4-2" std.

think about welding in Mustang torque boxes $60ea? (atleast on the drivers side) and using some sub-frame connectors (homemade is fine) because you uni-body has lost alot of it's strength
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Old 01-03-2005, 02:28 PM
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thanks again for all of the suggestions and comments. the mustang front end i have is a 4 bolt. i think i will just upgrade the current front end as suggested.
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