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Old 05-09-2005, 10:16 PM
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351 Cleveland tranny bolt pattern??

Ok, so I had a 302 that had a c4 with the case fill bolted up to it. I pulled the 302 and dropped a 351 Cleveland in it but the c4 case fill would not allow the starter to go in, because the housing was to narrow. tried to switch bell housing from the c4 pan fill that came with the 351C to the c4 case fill. but the 2 different types wouldn't interchange. so I ended up using the c4 that had the pan fill. now everything I have read says that all small block bells will bolt to the 351C because it is considered a small block, but this one would not work. do I have an odd c4, and odd 351 what could cause this. the reason I am asking is because I want to see about putting a AOD behind it now but need to know what kind of bell housing bolt pattern I need small, intermediate or big block. or some whacky 351 proprietary bolt pattern. I vaguely remember someone saying something about different sizes of flex plates dia.'s with the 351's .would this be the reason why the starter wouldnt fit in it and if so what size flex plates do the AODs have.thanks for any replies.

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Old 05-09-2005, 11:26 PM
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How old's the 302? Early smallblocks used the small bell 157 tooth (IIRC) flexplate, where ALL 351C's use the larger, 164 tooth flexplate. They can interchange, but each has its own bell, flexplate, and IIRC torque converter and starter.
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Old 05-10-2005, 12:14 AM
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C4 ... No, No, No!

Estimated lifespan of a C4 on a 351C ... measured in weeks, if not days.
(Been there -- done that)

My first swap was a 1971 351C (high compression) into a 1966 Galaxie 289. The car had a "Cruise-o-matic" (FMX) with a huge none-stall convertor. That poor car WOULD NOT go up a hill from a standing start ...351C's 4V's have poor bottom end torque because of the big valves and intake runners ... but just get it going around 3000 RPM and then punch it!

After being embarassed a few times by this, some bright friend of mine suggested swapping the FMX for a C4 from a 68 Mustang 302 ... which had just been rebuilt. The C4 convertor did have a higher stall speed, and really snappy tire-chirping 1-2 shifts ... for a little while.

It wasn't long before it flared on 1-2, and later 2-3. The fluid got brownish and smelly, and finally ended up driving home in "R" but going forward!

I ended up taking the engine out and selling it for $500 <kicking my own *** now> and junking the "Galactica".

My 2nd swap was a '72 351C (12.5:1 TRW pistons -- 10.65:1 with open chamber heads, lumpy SPEED-PRO cam, Edelbrock Torker, 750 Holley, headers) for a '68 Torino 302. You KNOW that I put a C6 / 2500 stall combination in that one! It was still a little lame of the line unless you loaded the convertor right up ... I should have had a 3000 stall.

So... if you're considering an AOD, I'd look at getting that beefed up with extra clutches etc, and be sure to use at least a 2500 RPM stall convertor (if they make one for AOD?)

That's my $0.25 worth...
Don
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Old 05-10-2005, 04:20 AM
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Don is right on with that one. A stock C-4 just won't hold up under a 351C. There is a lot of high performance stuff out their to beef up a C-4, but that gets spendy in a hurry. There is a cut off year for the C-4 bellhousing bolt pattern lining up but I can't remember off hand ( the very late 60's I think) I can't help with the AOD but HP & SA each have good books out there on Cleveland's, what fits what and how to go fast. Iv'e got a Cleveland in my 53 Ford and the books were the best investment I could have made. One pit fall to avoid is that there are three engines in the Cleveland series, 351C / 351M & 400. The 351C shares the small block 302/351W bolt pattern while the 351M & 400 use the big block 429/469 bolt pattern and to the best of my knowledge all use the larger flywheel. Check out the books, they may mention the AOD, if not they show you what to look for. Good Luck.
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Old 05-10-2005, 07:48 AM
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the 302 and c4 matched with it were 70 models, the 351C is a 71 model with a 69 c4 mated with it, I put a shift kit in it when I rebuilt the engine at 350HP and 400TQ 5 years and 5000 miles ago and while I dont doubt that the engine will wear out my tranny faster now it still runs great. and gets really good solid shifts. I broke them loose at 70 the other day hitting 3rd gear. the road may have been a little wet though hahaha. anyway. I replaced the rear gear from a 3.00 to a 3.80 and put in a 2500 stall and need another gear for the highway. if I go with an aod I plan on going with one that has been built to handle 500 HP just to be sure I dont fry it. its in a 70 mercury montego
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Old 05-10-2005, 09:19 AM
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351 c4

ran a 351c with 71 c4 with oilpan filler, this is the usual indicater the trans is hd and for a 351 or truck use . never had a problem tho did inst a shift kit and a adjustable modulator. the 351 had a mild cam and 4v but 2v heads it went well
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Old 05-10-2005, 08:33 PM
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C4 can easily be built to take a 351C motor..... we have bolted the C4 to a 460 motor and it worked well
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