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View Poll Results: Which one?
Straight Cleveland 2 33.33%
Cleveland/Windsor Mongrel 2 33.33%
Other 2 33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ
The best way (IMO) of building a CLEVOR is 4V (open) heads on a late (F4TE) 351W block. Use the 351C crank and adaptor plates to mount EFI.

Just like a sore chicken...You can't beat it...
I've done that on a race engine that I took apart every once in a while to freshing up. The only difficult part is port matching the assembly of the 5 parts and gaskets. I tried this a couple of times before I worked out this proceedure that gave me a good seal every time.

What I did is first mock up the assembly, then mark the location of the plates to intake and head with machinist blue and a scribe. I then gasket matched the plate to the head, then I matched the plate to the intake. Once I had everything matched so it would flow, I siliconed the plate to the intake(making sure the surfaces were sanded to provide a clean surface)
Then I mounted the intake /plate assembly to the heads, using the big felpro intake gasket, using silicone around the water passages.

KULTULZ - I really like the cars on your gallery!
You know, you really ought to take care of your antique chicken and not do anything to make it sore. I know that mine gets to go out on outings but I always keep an eye on it because it always wants to stick it's head in strange but dangerous dark places where it could encounter something that would make it sore or worse put it out of comission. Just a warning..

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2006, 11:41 AM
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Have you seen the recent articles about the real Boss 302 and the Tunnel Port ?

They recently fully worked them and developed about 12 % more horsepower than Joe Sherman does with a regular old 302 with ported factory iron '65 heads and moderate hydraulic flat tappet cam. The Boss and Tunnel had to turn 800+ more rpm make that HP with radical solid cams.

Seems like a modern SBF "W" head would be superior in every way.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2006, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
Have you seen the recent articles about the real Boss 302 and the Tunnel Port ?

They recently fully worked them and developed about 12 % more horsepower than Joe Sherman does with a regular old 302 with ported factory iron '65 heads and moderate hydraulic flat tappet cam. The Boss and Tunnel had to turn 800+ more rpm make that HP with radical solid cams.

Seems like a modern SBF "W" head would be superior in every way.
You are right about that. I ran the heads in the old days before after market heads. I found that the 2 barrel heads were best ported. The 4 V heads ported made more HP but in a very narrow power band like from 6-8000 RPM. Trying to make them make good torque from 3K to 6K was futile.
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:40 AM
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clevor

i have had several clevors.

the 351w bottom end is nearly bullet proof. cant say that for the cleveland. there are more parts available than the clev.
parts are cheaper for the w.
the 4v heads are neat for wind tunnel testing, but the real power is the 2v heads.

there are a few companies making the 302/351 intake swap kits to mount the 302/351w intakes on the 351c heads.

properly ported 351c heads are cheap, and run real good. they make great power.

yes there are 351w aftermarket heads that make good power also, and i am not saying anything bad about them, but the c heads work real good for cheap. plus people scratch their heads tryin to figure out what you have going on under the hood..lol
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2008, 09:35 AM
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I agree the Cleveland blocks have oiling problems that make them harder to work with but they can be used if you happen to find one of the 4 bolt main blocks cheap and want to use it. Otherwise the W blocks are cheaper to use and better. The W block with a offset ground M crank can make 427+ cubic inches and will live making over 900 HP on nitrous and even more on a turbo. The 4 bolt main Ford Racing blocks will stay together making more than twice that. The 3000 pound turbo pro cars are running in the mid 7s at 220+.
Cleveland heads can be used but are lots of work when aluminum after market heads are easy and make gobs of power and get cheaper every day.
The cleveland parts are getting more pricey and harder to find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIGW
i have had several clevors.

the 351w bottom end is nearly bullet proof. cant say that for the cleveland. there are more parts available than the clev.
parts are cheaper for the w.
the 4v heads are neat for wind tunnel testing, but the real power is the 2v heads.

there are a few companies making the 302/351 intake swap kits to mount the 302/351w intakes on the 351c heads.

properly ported 351c heads are cheap, and run real good. they make great power.

yes there are 351w aftermarket heads that make good power also, and i am not saying anything bad about them, but the c heads work real good for cheap. plus people scratch their heads tryin to figure out what you have going on under the hood..lol
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2008, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Choctaw Bob

I've done that on a race engine that I took apart every once in a while to freshing up. The only difficult part is port matching the assembly of the 5 parts and gaskets. I tried this a couple of times before I worked out this proceedure that gave me a good seal every time.

What I did is first mock up the assembly, then mark the location of the plates to intake and head with machinist blue and a scribe. I then gasket matched the plate to the head, then I matched the plate to the intake. Once I had everything matched so it would flow, I siliconed the plate to the intake(making sure the surfaces were sanded to provide a clean surface)
Then I mounted the intake /plate assembly to the heads, using the big felpro intake gasket, using silicone around the water passages.
Interesting. Were these the PMS plates? The plate runners are supposed to be transitioned between the CLV head port and the WDR intake port. What type of silicone did you use and were there any problems?

Quote:
KULTULZ -

You know, you really ought to take care of your antique chicken and not do anything to make it sore. I know that mine gets to go out on outings but I always keep an eye on it because it always wants to stick it's head in strange but dangerous dark places where it could encounter something that would make it sore or worse put it out of comission. Just a warning..
Mine is more like an old rooster. It might crow in the morning but the rest is all heartbreak...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2008, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ
OMG- who is trolling up these old threads--> this is the oiling solution i use, but i just fabbed up the lines myself. run the line from the oil boss above the oil filter to the rear oil pressure switch port from the rear of the block. that way you get oil pressure from both sides of the block.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2008, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearsomefairmont
Hi folks,
I have purchased a set of 1970 cleveland 4v heads, open chamber (better for pump gas), and am trying to decide a game plan for a motor build. I was contemplating either building
1. a strong 351 cleveland w/4 bolt mains but it seems that the blocks are prone to cracking, need serious oiling mods to live, and are darn expensive, including parts.
2. a 351 clevor, with forged 3.5 in stroke crank and stock length forged rods, and either KB or TRW clevor pistons, topped off with a clevor manifold from price motorsports. Or, as was suggested in a previous post, use a 3.85 in stroke windsor crank, 289 length rods, and boss 302 style pistons (yielding ~393 cubes?).

Is there any other options available, or is either of these better? Any thoughts are appreciated, I have done most of my homework but am trying to uncover any subtle advantages to either. Either of this setups should yield alot of horsepower for my '78 2-dr fairmont (currently has built 302, can we say real sleeper?)
Thanks again.
OMG- open chamber 351C heads are junk. detonation proned fulcrom rockers, i know somebogy is dredging up these trreads--refer to my post above.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2008, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techron

OMG- who is trolling up these old threads.


What's the problem? Someone most likely using the SEARCH feature, came across an interesting thread and wanted to add to it.

Not everything is answered/discovered in the first go-around. Where and how is it hurting anyone and/or anything?

BTW-

Your solution to the CLV oiling problem is your opinion only.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2008, 08:45 AM
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funny

i was diggin around and found this thread on the web. i used a google search. there is another thread, Clevor Boss??? that i dug up also. there is no problem with info, old or new. some people say bad things about the clevor motor. "dont mess with it, get regular aftermarket heads.." there are several poeple making brand new aluminum heads, even edelbrock makes heads now. there is a company that sells a super reliable dynoed 690 hp clevor, google it youll find it.

my engine block is a '69, but im guessing since i "dredged" to find that year block that its no good or too old also..

anyways, enough crying. edelbrock makes a rpm intake and heads for the clevor, and there are other companies too.

even on ebay you can find a supplier of aluminum heads also.

depending on what you are building, and your plans, the cleveland heads are sweet. i havent tried the new aluminum heads, but i am gettin the itch to try some.

-james
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2008, 08:48 AM
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admin

web admin,
can you merge this thread with 351 Clevor vs. 351 Cleveland
they are both basically the same, and cover the same topic.

just an idea

-james
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2008, 11:20 PM
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My chicken has parkinsons. He just keeps scratching and lunging at the same old hen every day.

It was around 15 years ago I had plates machined from 3/8"? aluminum plate make up the space left when you mount a Edelbrock Air Gap intake for a Windsor to Cleveland heads. They were machined for matching cleveland ports. They also handled the water port configuration. I carefully port matched the intake-plate-heads. I siliconed the plates to the intake and fastened it to the intake with 4 small counter sunk screws so I didn't have to fight the extra parts every . I used Permatex black with extra oil resistance.
Just look it over, once you figure out the relationships, you can make it work fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ
Interesting. Were these the PMS plates? The plate runners are supposed to be transitioned between the CLV head port and the WDR intake port. What type of silicone did you use and were there any problems?



Mine is more like an old rooster. It might crow in the morning but the rest is all heartbreak...
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2008, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ


What's the problem? Someone most likely using the SEARCH feature, came across an interesting thread and wanted to add to it.

Not everything is answered/discovered in the first go-around. Where and how is it hurting anyone and/or anything?

BTW-

Your solution to the CLV oiling problem is your opinion only.
KULTULZ, i agree, i was only pointing out this was an old thread. also-since you say "solution to the CLV oiling problem is your opinion only" i hope you noticed i linked to the link you linked to-i am complete agreement with you about the CLV oiling problem.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2008, 05:44 AM
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Good. Without the restictor kit, just feeding oil volume to the rear of the block won't do much. What was FORD thinking?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2008, 07:36 AM
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If you will remember, 60s and earlier Fords all had oiling problems. They had oiling priorities backward. The restrictors solve this.
The really cheap way to go is still 2 barrel small port quench Cleveland heads(2.05-1.65 valves) on a Windsor block. There are some water passages to drill and plug but these flow better than nearly any Windsor head.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ
Good. Without the restictor kit, just feeding oil volume to the rear of the block won't do much. What was FORD thinking?
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