351 Clevor vs. 351 Cleveland - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

View Poll Results: Which one?
Straight Cleveland 2 33.33%
Cleveland/Windsor Mongrel 2 33.33%
Other 2 33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2004, 10:26 PM
fearsomefairmont's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: wisconsin
Age: 30
Posts: 102
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
351 Clevor vs. 351 Cleveland

Hi folks,
I have purchased a set of 1970 cleveland 4v heads, open chamber (better for pump gas), and am trying to decide a game plan for a motor build. I was contemplating either building
1. a strong 351 cleveland w/4 bolt mains but it seems that the blocks are prone to cracking, need serious oiling mods to live, and are darn expensive, including parts.
2. a 351 clevor, with forged 3.5 in stroke crank and stock length forged rods, and either KB or TRW clevor pistons, topped off with a clevor manifold from price motorsports. Or, as was suggested in a previous post, use a 3.85 in stroke windsor crank, 289 length rods, and boss 302 style pistons (yielding ~393 cubes?).

Is there any other options available, or is either of these better? Any thoughts are appreciated, I have done most of my homework but am trying to uncover any subtle advantages to either. Either of this setups should yield alot of horsepower for my '78 2-dr fairmont (currently has built 302, can we say real sleeper?)
Thanks again.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2004, 10:51 PM
4 Jaw Chuck's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Age: 46
Posts: 4,935
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 80 Times in 67 Posts
The stock Cleveland block will be cheaper, how much money you got.

Some junkyard scouting/Buy @ Sell luck might score you a good used block, the oiling mod can be done with a drill, a tap and a drilled plug for the restrictor...no rocket science involved. Haven't seen to many cracked blocks but I have seen a few cracked factory forged cranks. Usually because they have been beat on...severely.

Maybe some of our Aussie friends could send us Cleveland fans in the Northern hemisphere some good used castings by boat, they are getting scarce up here.

Preferably some HO versions please.
__________________
Outlawed tunes from outlawed pipes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2004, 06:47 AM
woodz428's Avatar
Troll Hunter
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Philo,Il
Posts: 2,702
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Arrow

While I agree about oiling mods for extended high rpms, I don't agree with the cracking. I've got 6 Clevelands and none are cracked and have has at least that many more in the past,no cracks. You may be confusing the early 400s that had that problem with the Cleveland, although they appear similar a 400/351M is not a Cleveland in most Ford guys mind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2004, 07:01 AM
rifraf's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: washington
Posts: 576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've been entertaining the same build,I have also been told by a couple different people that oiling is a problem on the 351 Clev bottom end,I was also told that 4v heads flowed to much,but threw more research I found by increasing the displacement,stroke,It makes for one sweet package,wish I could say first hand.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2004, 12:37 PM
fearsomefairmont's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: wisconsin
Age: 30
Posts: 102
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As a follow up,
Do you know where I could buy the oil restrictor kit for a cleveland, and what is a good source for a block? I have found them online (DSC motorsports or ebay, around $200-300, worn standard bore) but shipping is rather expensive.
Also, is it possible to stroke a 351 cleveland? I have heard that a 3.85 in stroke crank, 5.955 in rods, and a 1.3 in compression height piston makes 393 ci, and since I am beefing up the bottom end I figure why not get more cubic inches.
You guys truly are a wealth of info.
Thanks again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-30-2004, 02:07 PM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Arrow

-MPG 351C Oiling Modification Kit-
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2004, 08:55 AM
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oregon\Middle East
Posts: 24
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey the Clevelands are awsome if you have any ?'s whatso-ever relating to the "C" and some that are not go here

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/119419

It is a forum dedicated to the Cleveland
__________________
Y'ALL come back now Ya heer
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2004, 10:29 AM
mustangman1968's Avatar
speed secret: drive fast!!!!!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: highway to hell
Age: 26
Posts: 74
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
id prefer just 351 windsor because of the massive amount of parts avaible
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2004, 06:54 PM
400C53F100's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dover DE
Age: 73
Posts: 50
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Instead of stroking the Cleveland, just get a 400 block, stroke it to 427. use it with your 4V Cleveland head.




http://hotrodders.com/gallery/showph...cat=500&page=1

Last edited by 400C53F100; 03-31-2004 at 07:06 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2004, 08:45 AM
rifraf's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: washington
Posts: 576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Aren't the newer 5.8/Windsors roller? They must be lighter anyway,and you get to keep the small bell housing and mounts if that matters. I did ride in a 1/2 ton 400 truck with 4v C heads and a 280 comp cam and it was impressive for the money he had in it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2004, 10:31 AM
mustangman1968's Avatar
speed secret: drive fast!!!!!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: highway to hell
Age: 26
Posts: 74
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
yeah the newer 5.8s do have the hydraulic roller cam same as the fuel injcetion 5.0s
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2006, 03:56 PM
Choctaw Bob's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 379
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I would use a late model 5.8 roller block. An earlier block can be modified by adapting the inexpensive roller kit available from Ford Racing. Then you can use all the cheap HP cams from the 5.0.
The cleveland heads will bolt on if you drill all the water passage holes. The main problem is a shortage of intake manifolds. The last time I checked there was one small company making an intake for the combination of Cleveland heads on a Windsor block. .
Low speed velocity is a problem with the 4V heads. The ports are so huge that the intake flow is lazy at low RPM. Restrictor plates used to be available when this engine was commonly hot rodded. Running 4.56 gears helps this some.
The best head for the street is the 2V head. These work well at all RPMs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2006, 12:17 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fearsomefairmont
Hi folks,

I have purchased a set of 1970 cleveland 4v heads, open chamber (better for pump gas),

Thanks again.

That is an old-wives-tale from 35 years ago.

Closed chamber heads with flat top pistons of reasonable compression increase the quench and increase detonation resistence. All the newer engines have strong quench for swirl.

Personaly I would stick to the W series. Better W heads are available that makes the stock type C heads look poor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2006, 12:40 PM
Choctaw Bob's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 379
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
That is an old-wives-tale from 35 years ago.

Closed chamber heads with flat top pistons of reasonable compression increase the quench and increase detonation resistence. All the newer engines have strong quench for swirl.

Personaly I would stick to the W series. Better W heads are available that makes the stock type C heads look poor.
Very true. The 4 barrel open chamber cleveland heads cam really flow at high lifts. People used these engines in all kinds of race cars in the 70s and early 80s until the after market availability of high quality aluminum windsor heads that will flow at high lifts and still maintain good velocity at lower lifts. These heads produce just as much power and have a much better and flatter power band.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2006, 03:11 PM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The best way (IMO) of building a CLEVOR is 4V (open) heads on a late (F4TE) 351W block. Use the 351C crank and adaptor plates to mount EFI.

Just like a sore chicken...You can't beat it...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.