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Old 01-23-2003, 05:43 PM
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Post 351 Modified vs. 351 windsor vs. 351 cleavland ?

I don't know if this is a repost but can someone clear these three engines up for me really good. Oh and by the way can someone tell me what "points" is ?

~Blackbob~

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Old 01-23-2003, 06:15 PM
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351WINSOR SMALL BLOCK DESIGN 351MILAN DIG BLOCK ,351CLEVLAND BIG BLOCK, CLEVLAN HAS SAME BELL HOUSING BOLT PATTERN AS WINSOR AND 302, TWO VERSIONS OF THE CLEVLAND WERE MADE 2V, 4V, DIFFERENCE IN THE HEAD, INTAKE , AND EXHAUST PORTS, MOST POWERFULL OF ALL THE 351S,MADE FROM 1969 TILL 1973 351M NORMALY HAD SERIOUS MAIN BEARING, CRANK SHAFT PROBLEM, HIGH TORQUE, LOW HORSE POWER, BOAT ANCHOR METRIAL, Point are a form of ignition out dated mid 70s electronic much better,. HOPE I REALLY DIDNT CONFUSE YOU MORE
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Old 01-23-2003, 06:27 PM
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I've heard that Cleavlands suck. I don't know. I've just seen more older Winsors. Steve

[ January 23, 2003: Message edited by: 5.0Towncar ]</p>
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Old 01-23-2003, 07:10 PM
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Here in Australia we made the 302/351 Clevelands are very common from 1971? untill the early 1980's and it powered almost all the V8 Family cars from Ford Australia, Windsors came with cars before that time and also just in the last few years. Clevelands have a good reputation here the Ford 351 GT's won our 1000 km Bathurst race a few times and were a good match for the 202 straight six and later 308 V8 Holden Toranas, The Fords were big tanks of cars and the Toranas very light so it worked out just nicely, as far as history goes I've read the Cleveland was especially designed to beat the small block chev in Nascar, since at the time the Windsor wasn't cutting it in Nascar, The Clevelands got very big ports, sure looks like a factory race motor to me
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Old 01-23-2003, 07:15 PM
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ford pioneered in the casting process seen in the windsors...the result is a pretty lightweight eng. with ability to put out some pretty decent power.

-thats just what Ive heard
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Old 01-23-2003, 07:19 PM
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351 Clevelands were great in their time but the Windsor wins hands down nowdays. The Cleveland had the best flowing heads for a SB Ford before aftermarket heads, thats what made them great motors pre 1990s. As for differences the Cleveland amd Windsor had a SB bellhousing bolt pattern while the 351M had a 429-460 pattern. The oiling on a 351 Windsor oils the mains first then the cam bearings, then the top end, on a Cleveland or M the oiling goes to both the cam and main bearings at the same time then to the top end. Windsors had a inline valvetrain while the Cleveland and M had a canted valvetrain. Windsors have a wet intake while Cleveland and M have a dry intakes. The mains caps on a Windsor are 2 bolt non splayed while the Cleveland had 2 or 4 bolt mains with splayed caps, the M had just 2 bolt splayed caps. Timing covers for the Windsor is a cast aluminum piece while the Cleveland and M have a stamped steel piece. Clevelands have smaller diameter mains than a Windsor or M, BTW the M has a 351 Windor crank in it. The motor mounts on a Cleveland and Windsor are the same, the 351M is quit a bit different, 351c amd M have the same valve covers while the Windsor is the same as the 289,302. Clevelands are good if they are built right 351M are good for scrap iron and the Windsor is the best of the bunch.
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Old 01-23-2003, 08:12 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by toymobile:
<strong>351MILAN DIG BLOCK ,351CLEVLAND BIG BLOCK,blah blah blah....</strong><hr></blockquote>

351C and 351M/400 are of the 335 series and are small blocks. As stated before the 351C has a small block tranny bolt pattern, and the 351M/400 shares the big block bolt pattern of the 385 series (429/460).
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Old 08-24-2006, 08:20 AM
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Dude, 351m/400 motors aren't smallblocks.
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Old 08-24-2006, 09:04 AM
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ford performance book say's big block babe is right
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Old 08-24-2006, 09:13 AM
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351 c ...decent motor, fubar oiling system, 2v heads too small, 4v heads, NO port velocity below 4000 rpm
351m....smaller version of the 400. basically useless (imo)
351w.... logical progression/extension if the 221/260/289. thinwall casting, large bearing area, good oiling system. Capable of impressive amounts of horsepower. Also reliable for use in the daily beater/work truck.
given the choice, the 351w is the winner hands down in this contest.The 351c is getting a little hard to come by & most of the performance pieces are a little pricey. If you have access to a 400, don't pass it up if the price is right. Small cam, minor port work, attention to the oiling system...you can build a torque monster for not a lot of green

Points....think Fred Flintstone ignition technology. There is NO reason to use a point trigger distributor. at least upgrade to a DurasparkII unit, cheap, easy to find in the local salvage facility.
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Old 08-24-2006, 04:44 PM
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a three year old post gets a reply?
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Old 08-24-2006, 04:49 PM
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therapy, baby, therapy
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Old 08-26-2006, 07:10 AM
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"...a three year old post gets a reply?"

A pointless, never ending debate that came up so often that the FTE Moderator posted this in their forum guidelines.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/12...uidelines.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"In the interest of promoting harmony and civil discourse in this forum it has been decided that there are a couple of guidelines that all posters to this forum should follow:

2. Avoid speculation on whether the 351M/400 is a "big block" or "small block". These are generic terms which generally apply to Ch*vy motors not our beloved blue oval mills so they really have no place in this group. The 351M/400 has elements relating to both the 385 series and the Windsor series and attempting to categorize them is futile, especially when using monikers which FoMoCo never adopted.

T.I.A. for your cooperation."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only correct terms for pre-modular, Ford V8s are Windsor, 335 series, FE (Ford-Edsel), and 385 series. Ford never used the term "Big Block" when referring to any 335 series engine.

351C 2V is a decent motor. The 2V ports will outflow all the Windsor factory iron heads. The oiling system is the same design as the 460 and requires very little attention unless you're running sustained 7000+rpm speeds.

The 351C 4V is a kick *** engine and the 4V heads having NO port velocity is a common exaggeration. The air is not stagnant by any means and yes, lower rpm velocity is less than the 2Vs but they have a better intake port location and short side radius.

4V port velocity can be drastically improved with the right components. For street applications, stay away from single plane intakes, long duration cams, and large primary tube diameter headers. 4Vs work great on stroker Cs and 400s.

351M is a destroked 400 with the only significant difference being the crank and pistons. They have the exact same potential when a 400 crank or 351W stroker crank is swapped (434 stroker kits are available) so I would never call them useless.

351Ws need aftermarket heads to make impressive amounts of horsepower. A lot of aftermarket heads for the 351C have become available in the last few years. Blue Thunder (2), AFD (2), CHI (3), Edelbrock(1) and Procomp (1). Competition helps reduce pricing.

As many as 4 companies are working on aftermarket blocks with improved oiling and thicker cylinder walls. Once these become available you could build an entire 351C engine using aftermarket parts.

At this time, the 351W is the winner when discussing costs but when it comes to performance I'd suggest researching the PHR Small Block Engine Masters Challenge held a couple years ago and take note that the Kasse built 1st place engine was a 351C using CHI 3V heads. BTW, when forced to categorize a 335 series engines for competition purposes, they are generally accepted as small blocks.
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Old 08-26-2006, 10:50 AM
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Thank Goodness someone finally made a sensible post regarding the 335 Series...
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Old 08-26-2006, 11:53 AM
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Well, it might be 3 years old but its still good reading material. Just because its old doesn't mean it can't be revisited. That's why the threads are left on here!

K
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