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Old 06-08-2010, 12:42 PM
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351C 2v Heads Part Selection

We are looking at rebuilding a Ford 400 engine. Had it pretty much given to us from a friend. Brand new seals on everything and clean oil in the pan although it was never run after these due to never getting wiring in the truck finished.

Along with the engine we purchased a pair of 351C 2v open chamber heads that have been modified for racing applications with a multi angle valve job. Supposed to just have been taken for a few pulls before they decided they didn't breath well enough and they were replaced.

Basically we need help figuring out what components we need to get to get these heads on and get the engine running. Never having done anything with performance before we are unsure what we need. We where told that the heads are machined for guide plates and we know that we need 7/16th inch studs.

Some information we know...
rocker ratio: 1.73 unless something else would have benefits

Already have...
a edelbrock performer series intake
edelbrock 600cfm 4 barrel carb
We are going to add a non-retarded timing set

so what we need selected is...
stud set
guide plates?
roller tip or full roller rockers
Anything else we are to stupid to think about

We are currently looking at summit but if there is a better place with better prices let me know. Would like to order from only one place though.

Links would be great

-B&C
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:00 AM
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Well I dont have any advice on what parts and guide plates to get, but what I do have is a lot of sources for information to learn yourself. I have a Ford Racing catalog (free off their website www.fordracing.com, just enter shipping info and they send it in the mail) that goes into a little detail with 351c and 400m engines and differences. Also they carry all sorts of parts for both engines as well as the 351w, I'm sure you would find a guide plate there.

Rockers in my opinion is what your opinion is. It doesn't REALLY start to matter until you start pumping out A LOT of horses. Roller Rockers reduce friction therefore adding life to your engine and less drag. Again, the Ford Racing catalog offers a few lessons in that as well as parts.

Other things you may want to consider if you are going for performance... Ignition (MSD? Stock? etc.), exhaust plays a big part, heads, size of intake and exhaust valves, size of combustion chamers, etc. You dont have to go into detail, mainly just think about your target horse power range, and your target RPM operating range (where you want your power curve), then just get parts associated with your goals.

And you can't go wrong with summit... I love Summit... and Ford Racing

Hope that helps a little.

Last edited by 71torino; 06-10-2010 at 07:03 AM. Reason: adding a link
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:07 PM
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Since the machining has already been done to convert the heads to take an adjustable valvetrain, any place (like Summit, etc) can supply everything you need. The guideplates, rocker studs, and rocker arms you need are the same application as Boss 302 and Boss 351. Rockers arms are also the same as 429/460 Ford BigBlock. Pushrods will have to be 400/351M length because of the taller block height if theses engines, and will need to be a hardened pushrod for use with guideplates.

Looks like your 2V head has the larger 4V intake valve installed in it?? If so check your valve to piston clearance around the valve notch in the piston.

If you are going far enough to change the timing set, there is no way I would put it back together without changing to a better than stock cam unless the budget was nearly zero $$$.

What is the intended use of the engine??
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:45 PM
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Alright please double check and correct anything that is wrong

Rocker Arms
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCC-SCP1023BL/

Studs (kit is enough for both heads I assume?)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-154-4004/

Guide Plates? (clueless are they optional or required since it has been machined for them?)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RHS-4836-8/

Pushrods I'm clueless for this engine

Timing set
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-3221/
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndChrome
Alright please double check and correct anything that is wrong

Rocker Arms
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCC-SCP1023BL/

Studs (kit is enough for both heads I assume?)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-154-4004/

Guide Plates? (clueless are they optional or required since it has been machined for them?)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RHS-4836-8/

Pushrods I'm clueless for this engine

Timing set
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-3221/
Timing set and rockers are correct, ...#'s for studs and guideplates you linked are incorrect, they are 351/400 race head to block mounting studs,.. and guideplates are for a Small Block chevy.

You might want to consider Summit Timing Set SUM-G-6621, has a much better roller chain at only $5 more, or SUM-G-6506 if stock type chain is good enough for you, its only $21.

Correct stud # for rocker studs for your application is ARP-135-7101. Incidentaly, the same as Big Block chevy. It's a Full set for both heads.

Correct guideplates would be Crane CRN-52650-1 or Comp Cams CCA-4804-8. Full set for both heads. Guideplates are mandatory because the stock rocker aligning slot for the stock non-adjustable rockers has been machined away during the machining of the rocker mount pad for conversion to adjustable valvetrain. The adjustable valvetrain is a much better set -up.

Pushrods would be Comp Cams CCA-7837-16, fits 351M and 400 Ford. These are a full set, these are standard performance replacements for Flat tappet hydraulic or solid lifters, not strong enough for use with roller cams due to the roller needing higher pressure valvesprings.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:41 PM
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Alright thanks. That should be everything. Forgot to add that we are leaving the stock cam in because this is going into a street truck and the budget is $0. Although he is dead set on putting roller rockers in despite any budget considerations. He's has enough cash to do just about anything to this engine, but I have to try and keep him from spending it all. Any other low budget improvements, that would be well worth the money, that we should consider?

Should we get some new rocker arm nuts, or can we use the old ones?

Last edited by BlackAndChrome; 06-11-2010 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndChrome
Alright thanks. That should be everything. Forgot to add that we are leaving the stock cam in because this is going into a street truck and the budget is $0. Although he is dead set on putting roller rockers in despite any budget considerations. He's has enough cash to do just about anything to this engine, but I have to try and keep him from spending it all. Any other low budget improvements, that would be well worth the money, that we should consider?

Should we get some new rocker arm nuts, or can we use the old ones?
The new Scorpion rockers will come with new nuts.
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:54 AM
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Awesome, that should be it then. Thanks for the help!
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Old 06-12-2010, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndChrome
Awesome, that should be it then. Thanks for the help!

I hope you know you have to machine the heads to accept any aftermarket roller rocker arms. This ain't no place for ford fanboys.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/

This is a forum dedicated to cleveland style engines. Plz drop by!
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Old 06-12-2010, 03:44 PM
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projectbronco.com

Check out www.projectbronco.com lots of good info on the ford m motors.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majorownage
I hope you know you have to machine the heads to accept any aftermarket roller rocker arms.

Beyond having screw in studs? They had roller tip rockers on the heads previously.
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Old 06-13-2010, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndChrome
Beyond having screw in studs? They had roller tip rockers on the heads previously.
I can tell by your pictures, your heads have been machined to take screw-in studs and guideplates. The self guiding factory part of the rocker pad has been machined away to leave a flat surface for the guideplate and stud hex to clamp against, and the pad thread tapped for a screw-in stud.
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Old 06-15-2010, 11:37 PM
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Another question... Sorry if I'm being a burden and if these is another stupid question but...

These pushrods I was referred to...
Summit Part no: CCA-7837-16

Say they are not for use with guideplates. Problem?
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Old 06-16-2010, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndChrome
Another question... Sorry if I'm being a burden and if these is another stupid question but...

These pushrods I was referred to...
Summit Part no: CCA-7837-16

Say they are not for use with guideplates. Problem?
Yep, problem, sorry about that, my catalog showed them listed with the hardened but they are not. They will wear badly in a short time if they aren't hardened and are run against guideplates, and will pollute the oil with metal particles.

Had no luck in the Comp Master catalog, your 400 is just unpopular as a hot rod engine and they don't carry a hardened set that is long enough. Stock spec is 9.500" long, that is a long pushrod for a 5/16" pushrod, you may have to get custom ones made. Maybe Summit tech can find something not shown in their catalog, they can get a lot more than they have room to show. Might have to be persistant in getting someone to really look for you at Summit, don't give up if the first guy comes up lame on this.

I could find 9.500" in 3/8", but then you have to modify or find different guideplates to fit the 3/8" diameter. 3/8" size would be better at that length however, much stronger.

Try Trend, CP, Smith Bros, or Manton for custom, maybe try Manley and try looking at the Cleveland forum posted earlier for links to 400 specific suppliers.
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Old 06-16-2010, 12:35 AM
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Dug a little deeper, came up with something. Comp Cams has a 5/16" x 9.500" in the Magnum line #CCA- 7656-16, and in the Hi-Tech line, #CCA-7793-16.

They also have 3/8" x 9.500" in the Hi-Tech #CCA-7757-16, and guideplates for the 3/8" are #CCA-4804-8.

All are going to be $130+ per set, I would go to the stronger 3/8" so you only have to do it once.
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