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Old 12-05-2009, 02:44 PM
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351w built for farm use

A friend of mine built a 390 to be driven like a diesel.. ( for his long time logger dad) All torque mod hp and lower rpm. Is there anyway of building a windsor to roughly act the same. How to build it to get maximum torque ( as much as possible) and get peek hp ( moderate ) before he hits 4,000 rpm? Yes its the wrong block really but he wants to work with what he has. So far its a 91 windsor bored .30 over he's got headers alum. intake (dual plain). Vehicle is a 1978 F250 Dana 60's 4x4 with a 97 Ranger ext. cab long box. also using a 5 spd standard. Any help would be greatly appreciated (yes i know its an odd plan/question)

thank you
bill C

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Old 12-05-2009, 03:18 PM
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I'm not a Ford guy so I can't get into specifics but basically you want a short duration camshaft with a tight Lobe Seperation Angle, something in the 110 degree range, small port heads (the factory heads would be fine) and a dual plane intake with small runners to keep mixture velocity high. The Comp Cams 252HE or 260HE cams come to mind. The old Edelbrock SP2P would be perfect for this application but I don't know if they ever made one for the 351-W and they have been out of production for a long time so a Performer or similar dual plane would work, a factory 4 Bbl. manifold would also work although as I recall they weren't plentiful for the 351-W. Keep your carb small, a Holley 390 4 Bbl. would do the job and small primary tube Tri-Y or 4-2-1 headers, 1-1/2" primary tubes would be perfect although they usually run around $500 a pair and that's for a Chevy. Nothing larger than 1-5/8" though. With the small camshaft you're not going to be able to run a lot of static compression unless you want to run premium gas because your dynamic compression is going to be pretty high. Keep your deck height short if you can and keep your quench diatance as close to .041" as you can. Like I said I'm not a Ford guy so the 351-W may have some quirks I'm not aware of but those would be the basics.
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:41 PM
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Sounds like it makes sense.. you mentioned 4-2-1 headers.. do you just mean some long tubes.. or literally splitting 4 into 2 then into one.. or even headers to duals into single outlet? he's got carb that fits that bill an believe he'll once over his heads an re-use. Thanks can't wait to hear more ideas
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:01 PM
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Four tubes into two tubes into one collector tube, also known as Tri-Y's. They are proven torque producers but expensive. Might be hard to find for an F250 with a 351-W but you definitely want full length headers, preferably 1-1/2" primary tubes but 1-5/8" will work.
If that 351-W had a factory roller cam that would be a big plus. The mild roller cams available are even better low end torque builders.
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:30 PM
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see if harold is still at comp cams if he is he would be able to help ou get the cam for what you need even if it is a special , sounds like you need a marine cam but for lower rpm applications ( marine engines have to produce hi torque as its like running on a dyno constantly )
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:02 PM
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got some more information.. vehicle will have 373's (approx) 32'' tire Np435 4 speed.He says 89/91 octane is a must, and he's running a rebuilt 585 Holley atop the dual plain edlbk intake. If i told him " tell your machine shop to build a cam with an industrial grind " How would he know that they knew what he was wanting or talking about. There are different garages in his area but none that specialize in performance engine's, more so re an re's.

thanks again

bill
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by "70" Cougar
got some more information.. vehicle will have 373's (approx) 32'' tire Np435 4 speed.He says 89/91 octane is a must, and he's running a rebuilt 585 Holley atop the dual plain edlbk intake. If i told him " tell your machine shop to build a cam with an industrial grind " How would he know that they knew what he was wanting or talking about. There are different garages in his area but none that specialize in performance engine's, more so re an re's.

thanks again

bill
I doubt any local machine shop will be able to grind a cam. You're going to have to go to a cam manufacturer for that. Comp Cams has the Xtreme 4X4 series ground specifically for 4X4 applications. I'd use this one if it were mine:

Xtreme 4X4


I just realized that I assumed you were talking about a 351-W when you said Windsor, it is a 351 isn't it?
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:13 AM
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A good valve job is essential here because you'll be looking for low lift flow. You're going to need a custom cam, I'd just call up Isky, there easy to work with and have great turnaround. Tell them what you want and they'll find something that works well. I would get all the part you plan on using together before you call them though. your intake, your compression, your headers, your gears, your fuel, etc.

If you're real serious about tq then stroking it would make the biggest improvement, but that's more costly than those other things.
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Old 12-07-2009, 09:52 AM
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The 351w can be stoked out it well over 400 cid adding a lot of power.
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Old 12-07-2009, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 70455
The 351w can be stoked out it well over 400 cid adding a lot of power.
Or, you can just get a 400M and use the difference in price to rebuild it...
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:24 PM
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Hey, Yes 351 Windsor.. no i will not rebuild a 400m. same reason i won't rebuild a 300-6 for performance.. sure you can get lots of power but the hassle of getting it there and cost for me anyway isn't attractive. Ap72 How do i know what the compression should be. I fear getting the piston's and finding out i got the wrong ones.. Would Mr. Iscy be able to tell me what piston to get that would fit his cam? I could assume sure maybe kb ( mine work great) and 9:1.. but thats assuming an I would be pissed to find out i should have gotten 8.5 or 10.. As-well when you say a good valve job.. you mean stick with the smaller valves but maybe a 3 angle grind an smooth the ports ?

thanks
bill
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "70" Cougar
Hey, Yes 351 Windsor.. no i will not rebuild a 400m. same reason i won't rebuild a 300-6 for performance.. sure you can get lots of power but the hassle of getting it there and cost for me anyway isn't attractive. Ap72 How do i know what the compression should be. I fear getting the piston's and finding out i got the wrong ones.. Would Mr. Iscy be able to tell me what piston to get that would fit his cam? I could assume sure maybe kb ( mine work great) and 9:1.. but thats assuming an I would be pissed to find out i should have gotten 8.5 or 10.. As-well when you say a good valve job.. you mean stick with the smaller valves but maybe a 3 angle grind an smooth the ports ?

thanks
bill
For compression shoot for about 9:1, any good piston manufacturer can help you get the right ones, KB will help if you like their product. And yes that's exactly what I meant, but the ports are only half of the equation, the valve is the other half.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "70" Cougar
Hey, Yes 351 Windsor.. no i will not rebuild a 400m. same reason i won't rebuild a 300-6 for performance.. sure you can get lots of power but the hassle of getting it there and cost for me anyway isn't attractive. Ap72 How do i know what the compression should be. I fear getting the piston's and finding out i got the wrong ones.. Would Mr. Iscy be able to tell me what piston to get that would fit his cam? I could assume sure maybe kb ( mine work great) and 9:1.. but thats assuming an I would be pissed to find out i should have gotten 8.5 or 10.. As-well when you say a good valve job.. you mean stick with the smaller valves but maybe a 3 angle grind an smooth the ports ?

thanks
bill
I'm guessing you already have the 351W motor.

If you want a low-RPM torque motor, displacement is the cheapest way to get there. Frankly, for all the effort you'll be putting into the small block, it would probably be cheaper to just go get a 460 and leave it stock.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:18 PM
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hmm well yeah myself i say go big as possible hah I have my wife to be's car for driving and i live on the same block as the store i run so toy's are affordable to drive. My brother wants it as a commuter/farm truck so mildly warmed up small block i would think would use less then the tank mill. And yes he's already got the block and its bored .30 over and waiting for the plan/parts. I would have done it the other way around. But now that were here lol I'll get the info to him.. and i am assuming that the insky number is on the web?
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:20 PM
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Well.. talked to the shop that built the Cleveland my car... said a cam 250-263? .30 over and 9:1 comp. some porting and bowl work to stock heads.. they could get 395ftlbs @2500 rpm and 270 hp at 3500 , with hp climbing as soon as tq evens off. Which i'm very happy with. They did mention that i need to get new lifters.. Could someone explain why and what to look for. " bang for buck" .
thanks again folks
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