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Old 08-15-2005, 11:43 AM
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351W heads, how to identify from 289/302

I recently bought a Ford 351W with the heads off. I see the block is a 351. For reasons not important here I began to wonder if the heads are actually 351 or 289/302 OR is there even a difference of consequence. The motor is being built for my future daily driver and only warmed over, ~275-325 hp.

Any help on identifying 351W heads is appreciated. Thx, r

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Old 08-15-2005, 11:48 AM
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most of the 351w ive seen have it casted on the head
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Old 08-15-2005, 12:06 PM
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That is good news! A little cleaning today and I will check. I assume probably somewhere around the rocker arms.

Thank you for responding, r
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Old 08-15-2005, 08:40 PM
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351W has 1/2 inch head bolt holes.....if you can put your pinky in the hole...its a windsor...thats how I been tellin the diff real quick for 10yrs

Fairlane
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Old 08-15-2005, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairlane2k
351W has 1/2 inch head bolt holes.....if you can put your pinky in the hole...its a windsor...thats how I been tellin the diff real quick for 10yrs

Fairlane
So is your nose a Windsor too?
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:38 PM
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Checked 'em out today

I checked both heads today. I could not find "351" anywhere. Did the "Pinky" trick and one felt just an rch tighter. I dropped a .5" bolt in each head and it fit both except one was again a little tighter. I mic'd them and one is .010 larger than a .5" So the mystery I think is over and they are 351 heads but interesting different markings.

Head #1: D80E and has the "CCP" casting. Mean 1968 and Canada foundry?

Head #2: E5AE and has the "WC" casting. Mean 1975 and Windsor foundry? btw, this is the head .010 wider head bolt head.

Also, the rocker arms look the same.

Thx for responding and any more info on the above is appreciated, r
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Old 08-16-2005, 07:08 PM
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I think only the early heads have 351 in them. I believe that they started using a common head in the late 70's early 80's and all had the 1/2 inch holes and the 302 use headbolts with built in washers to compensate, much like the head bolts Ford offered during the Muscle Parts era when they used the 351W heads on the 289-302s.
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Head #1: D80E and has the "CCP" casting. Mean 1968 and Canada foundry?
1978 (with appropriate date code)-Cleveland

Quote:
Head #2: E5AE and has the "WC" casting. Mean 1975 and Windsor foundry? btw, this is the head .010 wider head bolt head.
1985 (with appropriate date code)-Windsor
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ
1978 (with appropriate date code)-Cleveland

Is this head compatible and can it be used on the 351W?

I ask because often on the board I see discussions about head characteristics such as "quench" which I still do not think I fully appreciate.

thx, r
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:34 PM
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I didn't mean the head was a 335 Series casting, I meant the C usually stands for CLV FOUNDRY. You may have two entirely different series cylinder heads (well both from the ninety-degree family but of different design periods). Do you have the full casting nos. and the date codes?
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:40 PM
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Kultulz,
Here are the only head date stamps I found. The D80E head is 1J1 and the E5AE head is 4L8.

Notes that I taken and further observations:

a. In looking at my block, it is E4AE6015 and was made Sept. 22 1984 btw, it was rebuilt as the pistions are stamped .030
b. Both heads take the smaller spark barrel.
c. In looking around the net I found a comment that stated mid to late 70s 302 and 351W heads are identical. What I see on my two heads is a difference in the head bolt hole very slightly, i.e. .010.
d. A comment about 351W heads will slightly lower the compression if replacing 302 heads. Now is that in the head design or the engine stroke I do not know.


I did not mean to imply I wanted to use these heads on 351M.

thx for help, r
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:48 PM
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various compression ratios with Winsor Heads

The idea that using the 351w head on a 289/302 will sumarily drop compression is a mistake.
The 351W heads from 69-77 had a 60 CC combustion chamber, while the 302 of that same period had a 64 cc head from 69-74. The 289 had a 55 or 56 cc head for a couple years, dont remember exactly which.
To muddy the waters further, in 75-76, the 302 had a 58 cc head, while the 351 continued to use the 60 cc head. In 79 both went to a 69 cc head, wich remained the standard cc for several years.
As a matter of interest, the Cleveland head can be used on all Winsor engines with some minor modifications, but also require a special intake, or adaptor plates to use a standard Cleveland intake. There was a company in Arkansas, called B&A Performance, which produced both iron and aluminum manifolds in both dual and single plenum design, specifically made for use with the cleveland head on the 289/302, and the 351W.
The Cleveland head could be used with stock pistons as long as you didnt exceed .480"lift and 230 degrees duration, with stock flattops.
Keith Black did and still does make pistons for this particular application.
Prior to the advent of decent aftermarket heads for the Winsor family, bolting on the cleveland head was the only way to go for better breathing, however, it was at a cost of about 40 lbs gain in engine weight.
The modifications on the cleveland head required plugging the water return port on the front end of the head and either drilling into the front end of the head and installing pipe nipples or to drill into the intake manifold side of the head to match up with the water crossover on the B&A intakes.
Due to the cooling problems with Clevelands, a lot of guys that raced clevelands, myself included, simply blocked off the thermostat hole, and installed 3/4 inch pipe nipples into the front of the head and ran dual water return lines back to the radiator, with great success.

Last edited by Max Keith; 08-17-2005 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:10 PM
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head ID

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAW
I checked both heads today. I could not find "351" anywhere. Did the "Pinky" trick and one felt just an rch tighter. I dropped a .5" bolt in each head and it fit both except one was again a little tighter. I mic'd them and one is .010 larger than a .5" So the mystery I think is over and they are 351 heads but interesting different markings.

Head #1: D80E and has the "CCP" casting. Mean 1968 and Canada foundry?

Head #2: E5AE and has the "WC" casting. Mean 1975 and Windsor foundry? btw, this is the head .010 wider head bolt head.

Also, the rocker arms look the same.

Thx for responding and any more info on the above is appreciated, r
GENERALLY
Ford codes for most everything in Ford Motor Company:
The first letter is the decade... C= 1960s, D=70s, E=80s,
F=90s
The next DIGIT is the year.
The next letter denotes the car line.. as engineered, not necessarily where installed. Truck heads have a T but the Mustang GT used the good truck heads E7TE from 87-93. Letter O was for Fairlane, A was for Galaxie, etc. As per design= all 289s/302s (small blocks) had O even if installed on big cars. Because of the variations, this could be confusing and it is of little practical value.
The last letter E stands for "Engine" parts. Chassis, body, interior, electrical, etc. use other letters.

There is also other codes cast on the head. Often something like AA, AB, etc. This helps identify the running production change. There is also an casting date such as 4B23, which would be the 4th year, B= the second month =February, and the date 23 rd....

The D8OE is a 78 head.
The E5AE is an 85 head.

Hope this helps a little.

Last edited by xntrik; 08-17-2005 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:47 PM
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Small Block Head compression/ chamber cc's

[QUOTE=Max Keith]The idea that using the 351w head on a 289/302 will sumarily drop compression is a mistake.

The 351W heads from 69-77 had a 60 CC combustion chamber, while the 302 of that same period had a 64 cc head from 69-74. The 289 had a 55 or 56 cc head for a couple years, dont remember exactly which.
To muddy the waters further, in 75-76, the 302 had a 58 cc head, while the 351 continued to use the 60 cc head. In 79 both went to a 69 cc head, wich remained the standard cc for several years.
************************************************** **

Compression varied due to the size of the piston dish. So rated ratios don't mean much. If we ignore the very first 289 HIPOs that came out which had 49cc heads, the remainder of the clan of HIPOs, run of the mill 289s, and even the J code '68 4 bbl. 302 is the same.. All these heads had a 53.5 cc nominal chamber size, though there were slight variations in the chamber shape. Many manuals list them as 52-55 cc with that generalized span of tolerance, but their design called for the 53.5 cc. I have measured many heads and this is the average size. These heads all generally have within a couple of cc's the same 124 cc intake runner and the exhaust volumes. The mid 60s-on heads with the exhaust port bump measure about the same volume because that head has a depression on the side wall. Early valve size varied a little, but became standardized by late 64 at about 1.74 intake and 1.45 exhaust.

The 351 W heads of 69-70 run about 60 cc with an 144 intake runner volume and slightly larger 1.84 intake. This was the hot ticket for cheap performance in the 70s. Increasing the valve and intake runner size on a 289/302 was good, but the increase in chamber size (about 6 cc) dropped the compression right at one full point on the 289. This 69-70 W head is essentially what was marketed as the GT-40 iron head in the 90s. 5.0 HOs use the E7TE truck head, a 60 cc. head, some have measured 61.2 cc. and a 124 intake runner.

The 289, in its swan song '68, had an overly large head of questionable value
I think looked much larger than 60 cc. I did not see many and most went in the scrap trailer.

To the best of my knowledge the 289/302 never used a head as large as 69 cc as that would drop the compression another 1.4 points compared to the 60 cc head. That would never have been feesible.

Last edited by xntrik; 08-17-2005 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 08-18-2005, 12:50 AM
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quench

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAW
Is this head compatible and can it be used on the 351W?

I ask because often on the board I see discussions about head characteristics such as "quench" which I still do not think I fully appreciate.

thx, r
Simplified:
Quench is the area where the flat part of the head comes close to the flat part of the piston top when the piston is all the way up, usually about .050 apart. This squeezing out of the combustion gases makes turbulence in the chamber making the burn more efficient, and less prone to pinging. Open chamber heads do not have flat parts close to the pistons, and dished pistons with quench heads lose there quench because only the outside rim of the piston, maybe 3/8 wide, comes up close to the flat part of the head... thus limited squish/quench.
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