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Old 12-17-2012, 05:44 AM
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355 build check up

Alrighty so I got my block. Its been checked and is looking good other than high mileage wear. Once I get the parts I'll be able to get it bored and balanced.

I have a 1980 z28 with the 190hp 350 LM-1. 3.42 slip diff. It is bone stock.

Uses will be late night taco bell runs, The rare relaxing cruise and as much track time as I can afford.


Heres what I'm going with and want to know if it will work well together. or missing anything.

Not entirely sure as this was given to me but I believe this is it.
holley 650 cfm double pumper with mechanical secondaries(any way to switch to vacuum? or should I not worry about that)
Holley Performance Products 650 CFM Four Barrel Street/Strip Carburetor*0-4777S

Edelbrock performer air-gap
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap Intake Manifolds 7501 - SummitRacing.com

Bare brodix ik 200's. 64cc chamber
Brodix Cylinder Heads IK 200 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Chevy 1020000-1 - SummitRacing.com
Head improvement kit. up to .625 valve lift
Head Improvement Kit, Chev SB, 2.02-1.60", Mech FT/Hyd Rlr-Competition Products

Howards 1.6 full rollers 7/16 studs.
Howards Cams Billet Aluminum Rocker Arms 90073 - SummitRacing.com

Eagle 6" I beams
Eagle SIR I-Beam Connecting Rods 6000BPLW - SummitRacing.com

Probe -3.5 forged pistons w/ 1.26 compression height
Probe SRS Forged Pistons 13720-030 - SummitRacing.com

Entering the I'm really really unsure area.

Fel pro .015 compressed gasket for a .04 quench. I've been told to use this. The gasket is .07" larger than the bore though, will this affect the quench effect or any of the combustion process? Would a .04 gasket and get the heads decked to get proper quench be better?
Fel-Pro Performance Head Gaskets Q1094 - SummitRacing.com

Howards .927 wrist pins. Do i need these or will the pistons come with them? Alternatively I can't figure out where to find press fit piston wrist pins. Very confused here.
Howards, Tool Steel Wrist Pins, .927" x 2.500", .120" Wall-Competition Products

The crank I'm looking at. Alternatively should I keep my stock crank?
Eagle Cast Steel Crankshafts 1035034857AU - SummitRacing.com

I have spent a whole lot of time reading and getting a few people to critque my parts and most of them have ok knowledge as far as engines go but not so much on the performance side. I want to make sure I'm on the right track and everything will work well together. Going to eventually start shopping around everywhere but for now using summit as the main link.

This is basically pushing the budget with some left for machine work for the heads and block more gaskets, headers, oil pump and other stuff for the engine.

Trans and chassis will be researched and upgraded as soon as I've figured out the engine build. Also if anyone can give me an approximate HP/TQ figure I'd like this and any recommendations on headers, oil pump, distributors etc.


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Old 12-17-2012, 11:08 AM
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The heads you chose are very good heads.what camshaft? why a 650 carb? That car is obese,I had a 1980 Z-28 and it weighed 3915!not with a driver,yikes.Mine had a 454 ls-5.
what track time are you talking? road race? drag? slalom?
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:30 PM
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Static compression ratio 11.50:1 using those pistons. What will you use for fuel?

IK200 heads can be had with either OEM size 1.250" valve springs or aftermarket 1.437" springs. Do you know the size of the spring pockets? Your head improvement kit includes 1.437" springs. If the heads are cut for 1.250", you will have some machine work to do.

Do you understand that the valve seats are not finished on these heads? You will have some machine work to do.

Do you understand that you cannot run the valve springs directly on the aluminum head. I don't see where you have taken spring cups into consideration.

Do you understand that the rocker studs you are buying are 7/16". I'm bettin' the heads are tapped for 3/8-16 and you will have more machine work to do.

Do you understand that you cannot run a shim gasket with aluminum heads and iron block?

Do you understand that you can buy all this stuff ready to bolt on without machine work. You will pay the price for this motor, whether it's to the manufacturer who will finish the product so that it will go together without further work or you will pay less for semi-finished stuff and pay a local machinist to finish it for you. There is no free lunch. You will pay somebody.

Last edited by techinspector1; 12-17-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
Tech: when was the last time you actually built a motor. All the heads are machined for a 7/16" thead in the head.
So I occasionally drop the ball. I'd like to be around to see how you operate at my age and condition. Nobody bats a thousand.

Last edited by techinspector1; 12-17-2012 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
The Brodix bare Ik200 heads come with the valve job already done.
cleaning , checking clearances and valve sealing and correct assembly is all thats required.
Then maybe you should put in a call to Summit and tell them to change the verbage in their parts description....
Brodix Cylinder Heads IK 200 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Chevy 1020000 - SummitRacing.com
They are saying these heads have unmachined seats.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
Do not buy a dome piston. Get a flat top piston.
Here is a better build.
get the block bored as required.
Buy the Summit house brand labeled complete 350 SBC engine rebuild kit with flat top pistons inc.
Get your stock GM crank reground 10-10 and get your stock GM connecting rods resized.
from the parts It would seem I'm going to potentially getting up to 6500 rpms. Most computer simulations say I'll reach peak hp around 6000 rpm and peak TQ around 3500-4000. Will this Idea be ok? Do I not need to buy a new crank and rods? I kind of like the idea of the 6" rods for fun. Also the ones I'm looking at are forged. Also forged pistons at this point are somewhat of a I would really prefer to have and do not mind spending the extra coin for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
Get the block decked as required to achieve a assembled 0deck height with the flat top pistons in the kit.
Buy a complete Comp cams mech street roller cam and kit
K-12-772-8 Xr286R-10 (add a roler cam thrust button to complete)
I was wondering if I should go mechanical or hydraulic. I like the idea of Mechanical as it seems to add more interactivity and valve trian control on my end. Will I need retro fit at all? Also Is howards ok? Couple buddies have had problems with Comp and I'm kind of worried about trying them. They use howards now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
Buy the brodix Ik200 64cc heads bare and add Manley 2.02x 1.60 7/16" screw in studs+guide plates and comp pushrods.
Summit-Scorpion 1.6:1 aluminum roller rockers (7/16"stud)
650 DP Carb upgrade with a Holley/proform 750HP carb body kit.
The Performer RPM manifold is fine.
1-5/8" or 1-3/4" headers and 2.5" dual exhaust (use collector extensions at the track.)
Seems good here. Is scorpion a good brand? I have never heard of them or seen them put into many other builds. Would the crane 1.6x energizers be acceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
Trans converter and gears. Get a 9" 10" 3500++stall converter and 4.56:1 gears. 9x28" street strip ET streets.
Get some traction bars and a drive shaft hoop.
Buy 4.56:1 gears and buy a NEW Auburn gear posi or a NEW Eaton posi. Do not re-use the stock GM posi.
The Stock GM axles are fine.
8.5" x 28" ET streets
because the block is 0 decked use a .041" felpro composite head gasket.
Thank you for all of this. Also Yea looking at posi's. Do i need to buy the whole hub at the rear (not sure what its called as I have yet to really read about this area) or just the posi? Also yea the diff gear is a slip not limited slip so going to definitely upgrade that. I have a 4.1 barely used.
.041? why not .04? Also now this is something I can't find much on but what would be the disadvantages of a tighter quench? If I wanted to run a tighter quench (if its advantageous of course and i wouldn't exceed below .037 or so) What would I have to do to ensure stability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
your dome piston choice would have resulted in excessive compression ratio.
The money you save using the Summit engine rebuild kit and your crank and resized GM rods
will more than pay for the roller cam kit.
You will go faster-longer.
As Vinnie stated:
80's camaros are heavy. you will need the 4.56 gears (28" tall tires)
This matched street strip combo will go fast at the track and run very nice on the street.
Anything you do to reduce vehicle weight is a bonus.
This is the cam I'm looking at Howards Cams Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Camshaft and Lifter Kits CL111815-10 - SummitRacing.com. It will help increase DCR and I'm triyng to read about fuel as much as possible. I've read a good DCR is 8-8.5 for pump gas. Is this only due to spark knock or would this be similar to an air fuel ratio where 14:1 or so is just about perfect and will be the most efficient . So in other words is 8-8.5 just the most efficient range for a DCR? Would the higher octane slower burning gas be better with the higher DCR?

Thank you for all the additional information I really really appreciate that. Essentially I'm trying to build the most efficient engine possible. I'm also trying to read about all the tips and trick so keep em coming . Information is my currency. So any articles or however much you want to type is appreciated.

Also I would like to add I'm skittish about buying brands my friends or people at the car shows don't mention much. I want to do this once for the time being. I only have the next 6 months+ what I have saved to perfect this thing. So I can also only afford to do this once.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:03 AM
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Cam: Howards Cams Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Camshaft and Lifter Kits CL111815-10 - SummitRacing.com

As far as the machine work questions. Anything I can do I want to do. Not want to save money on. I want to do this. To me having to pay someone else to do work I could do is alienating myself from the project. Also as a note. My father will be helping. He has been a mechanic for 25+ years. Has an abundance of tools and we have discussed this. Anything I think I can not do accurately enough He is more than happy to assist with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Static compression ratio 11.50:1 using those pistons. What will you use for fuel?
The highest octane fuel I can afford. Apparently I can get 11x from the track out here. I'm hoping this will keep combustion problems out of the way. Please let me know if I'm misleading myself.
I also understand higher octane does not=higher power.
I'm also going to have an approximate 9.1-9.3 DCR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
IK200 heads can be had with either OEM size 1.250" valve springs or aftermarket 1.437" springs. Do you know the size of the spring pockets? Your head improvement kit includes 1.437" springs. If the heads are cut for 1.250", you will have some machine work to do.
I think the bare spring pockets are 1.250. I will hopefully have the tools available to do make them the appropriate sizes accurately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Do you understand that the valve seats are not finished on these heads? You will have some machine work to do.
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Do you understand that you cannot run the valve springs directly on the aluminum head. I don't see where you have taken spring cups into consideration.
Spring cups are something I'm going to start reading about shortly as I have not heard of them from before this. I assumed I would need some sort of spring seat. I also assumed the head rebuild kit came with that. When I got the kit I would probably notice this and then start looking and asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Do you understand that the rocker studs you are buying are 7/16". I'm bettin' the heads are tapped for 3/8-16 and you will have more machine work to do.
Does tapping it out have to be done with precision machinery? Secondly I was under the impression where the studs went into the head the threads were still 3/8ths however the stud the rocker went around was where it was 7/16th. I think this was adressed but I would like to make doubly sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Do you understand that you cannot run a shim gasket with aluminum heads and iron block?
I did not know about the shim gasket. So it is better like I was asking to have the heads milled and use a .04" gasket or equivalent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Do you understand that you can buy all this stuff ready to bolt on without machine work. You will pay the price for this motor, whether it's to the manufacturer who will finish the product so that it will go together without further work or you will pay less for semi-finished stuff and pay a local machinist to finish it for you. There is no free lunch. You will pay somebody.
Yes, I understand this. Any tips as to tools I may need would be appreciated. 3 angle valve jobs are apparently 20$ a port. I also havent been able to locate any equipment or something where I could do this myself without spending something similar to the price of the motor.

Thanks for the helpful questions. Especially the seat cups. Going to go read about those now. Really appreciate it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:43 AM
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That Howards roller cam is a fair cam.Is that your choice for sure?
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:40 PM
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@ vinnie there is wiggle room there. I've been thinking about going with a mechanical I just don't know if i need to worry about the restrofit like I do with the hydraulics.

@ f-bird Sorry I'm not trying to argue just curious. There is only so much information one can garner without actually talking to people.
Main question is will that setup hold together after multiple track passes?
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:21 PM
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355 build check up

If you feel more comfortable with forged pistons and rods you might want to look into a Scat 383 rotating assembly. You are buying a new crank so you might as well take advantage of an extra 28 cubes. The Brodix heads would match up with the 383 ci more than a 355 ci. Check it out at: Scat Engine Rotating Assemblies 1-90455BI - SummitRacing.com. I also thought you might would like to check out these Crower Cams. This is a mechanical roller that would benefit the heads and compression your engine has. Chevrolet Hydraulic Roller Camshaft - Performance Level 3 - Performance Levels. If you are interested call Crower and talk to them about a camshaft for you engine.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:34 PM
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I was told forged pistons and rods for higher cr's. I'm not looking to run this thing off of pump gas. Its going to be primarily a track car with maybe 10-20 miles on it during the week. Car shows on thursday and saturday nights about 3 and 6 miles away.

Also f-bird I didn't think of that one. I may but like I said little skittish about comp.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:55 PM
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first? are you building a 350 or 383?
How quick do you want that car to go?

are you taking any weight out of it?

then we can figure how many ponies that you need to accomplish this task
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:21 PM
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355 build check up

In building your engine you said you not worried about running it on pump gas is this correct? Have you checked on the price of racing gas lately? Well if the compression doesn't matter you could use the pistons you listed in your parts. If I was to build an engine for racing I would want an all forged rotating assembly. You have to decide how much horsepower are you building this engine for. What times and speed do you want to turn will help decide how much horsepower you need. When you start looking at 500+ horsepower is when you want forged internals. You know the heads you chose will probably support 600 hp. Once you choose the compression ratio you want then look at rotating assemblies that will give you that compression with 64cc chambered heads. The compression you choose will also dictate what camshaft to use. You don't want a camshaft needing 13.0 compression when you only have 10.5 compression. Same with your intake match it to the rpm range of the heads and camshaft. About quench, you don't mill the heads to get the quench of .035-.045 you mill the deck of the block. The easy way is to Zero deck the block and use .040 head gaskets, but you have to have this figured in when choosing your compression ratio. Buy the bare heads and wait until you decide the camshaft you want and buy the Camshaft kit to get the springs, retainers and locks. Then buy the rest of the hardware you will need to get your heads assembled. Sorry about the book but I hope it helps.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:44 PM
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@vinnie for now its going to be a 355. I'm getting a 2nd block soon to mess with the grinding for a 383.

at least 13's. Lower is better.

I'm looking into weight reduction techniques right now. I've found body kits to help. I'm also trying to find any overweight parts in the engine bay to take out and replace if possible.

@cd minter, I'm not entirely too worried about this cars gas. Its not my daily I understand though. Like I said very few miles are going to be put on after the breakin period.
Well yea. I understand what you're saying about the cam. I may be undercamming it with my choice. I'm just trying not to over cam it.
Oh oops, yes you take the metal off the block not the heads. Sorry didn't realize I fudged up there.
I'm trying to stay between 10.75-11.5 compression ratio.
Thanks for the book I appreciate it! The more info you throw at me the happier I am.

@f-bird
I'll definitely make some time to go check em out. I've never thought about it too much untill I got my idea down solid really.
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:57 PM
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Take out the bumper reinforcement plates and the plates in the doors,thats a good 1/10 or more.

420 HP small block with 4.11s will get you into the 13s
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