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Old 05-03-2010, 10:35 AM
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355 estimated HP and TQ

Hey everyone new to the forum here and was wondering if anyone had any insight on what the motor im building will produce. thanks in advance, here are the specs:

010 block .30 over
mahle original hyper coated flat tops 5cc reliefs
pistons are .025 in the hole running a fel pro .015 shim
GM bowtie phase 2 heads 2.02 1.60 casting cleaned up on intake and exhaust ports, Flat milled to 60cc chambers
Cam is an older cam dynamics cam specs are: .480 lift on intake and exhaust,
ADV duration of 284/284 same grind as crane 284 h12 energizer.
harland sharp roller rockers, 1.5 ratio
PJ gear drive
Edelbrock performer intake, (port matched to heads)
edelbrock 600cfm manual choke mechanical secs
1 5/8 shorty headers into dual 2.5 pipe to flowmaster 40's
I think thats everything but if someone has desktop dyno or more experience, id really appreciate the info/estimate. This is my first engine build, its going into an 86 jeep CJ7
Thanks a ton ,
Cory

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Old 05-03-2010, 01:29 PM
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this is my estimate but i'm sure that i'm pretty close, and i have the GM bowtie II heads at about 235cfm@ .500" lift.

390-400hp and around 410-415ttq (with full lenght headers, without take 10-15hp/tq off)

i think you would be better off with a set of full length headers, those shorties are no better than having stock exhaust manifolds. i calculate your compression out to 10.9:1 is this for off road/race use or for street use, with the little over lap you have from that cam i dont think you will be able to run pump gas at all. if you stay with the compression ratio you have i think you would be better off looking into another cam, say a solid f/t or hyd roller cam, unless this is a rock crawler (which is doesn't sound as if it is) then with 10.9:1 compression i think you would be better with more over lap say 236-242 @ .050 but with the profiles that you are likely to find the engine will be running up over 6000 rpm at max
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:41 PM
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Thanks for the reply...I'm running the shorty header bc of clearance issues with the frame rails..on my calculations I came out with a 10.62 to 1 CR. This is built for offroad/street. I was told by a local builder I would be ok on the 93 octane pump gas in my area. I've tossed around the thought of a new cam but this cam was in before the rebuild and made power the way that I liked. They make an outside frame rail full length header but I'm not too fond of them.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:46 PM
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Sorry my calculations were 10.491 to 1
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:25 PM
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with -5cc flat tops, .025" in the hole, a .015x 4.060 head gasket, (.040 quench) and a 60cc combustion chamber you are right at 10.909:1

here is a link to an acurate calcualtor

http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

i really dont see a way that you could get this configuration to run on pump gas, you just dont have enough over lap on the cam. i looked up the cam specs and the intake valve closure at .050 is 41 ABDC, i just figured out your dynamic compression ratio which is the actuall amount of cylider pressure inside each cylinder and you are comming out at 9.258:1 in order to run 93 octane fuel you need this to be about 8.5-8.7:1 you would end up having to either put an additive in your fuel or run 110.

here is a link to a dynamic compression ratio calculator

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:42 PM
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the fel pro 1094 is what im running its a 4.100 bore gasket. When figuring CR ive always added the compressed cc of the gasket to the chamber. Being that the 1094 has a compressed cc of 3.2 it gives me 63.2 cc chambers. Figured that way is what gives me the 10.491 to 1 ratio
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:47 PM
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with the link to that calculator the cgsnetwork one. Once your figures are in you have to hit the calculate chamber volume button which when i do it gives a figure of 65. something but i know what the volume of the 1094 is so i use the 63.2 as the input number
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunferferth
with the link to that calculator the cgsnetwork one. Once your figures are in you have to hit the calculate chamber volume button which when i do it gives a figure of 65. something but i know what the volume of the 1094 is so i use the 63.2 as the input number

that may be the caculated volume of the chamber and gaskets combined but if you put 63.2 into the chamber volume slot and then also put .015 in the gasket thickness slot, and then 4.100 in the gasket diameter slot, then it will calculate the this twice and you will end up with 66.4cc's all you have to do is put the correct data in each slot and then hit the calculate CR button and it will do all the math for you. so here is exaclty what you should put in each slot in order from top to bottom

1 for inches
4.030 for bore
3.48 for stroke
4.100 for gasket bore diameter
.015 for gasket comprssed thickness
60 for chamber volume
-5 for piston dome (that is a negitive 5 since you have 5cc valve reliefs)
.025 for piston to deck clearance

then hit the calculate CR button and it will give you 10.900:1 the reason i was getting a higher number earlier is becuase i assumed you were using a 4.060 head gasket. you dynamic compression ratio which is around 9.25:1 (this number is actually a referance to how much PSI will acutally be in the cylinders after the cam/ over lap bleeds off some of the compression/pressure) 9.25:1 is still way too high to run pump gas like i said you need to be in the range of 8.5-8.7:1 to get 93 octane, and you are wll above it. dynamic compression is not quite like static compression, it only takes a little bit before you are out of range for pump gas.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:27 PM
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what i was saying was i put those figures in, then i hit calcuate chamber volume and it automatically changes the chamber volume from 60 to 65.a bunch of numbers. im guessing it assumes the .015 gasket displaces around 5cc's but i know the figure is 3.2 cc so instead of the calculated 65 i use 63.2.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:49 PM
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well im biting my foot lol, you are right! but thats ok i can work around that, thanks a ton
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunferferth
what i was saying was i put those figures in, then i hit calcuate chamber volume and it automatically changes the chamber volume from 60 to 65.a bunch of numbers. im guessing it assumes the .015 gasket displaces around 5cc's but i know the figure is 3.2 cc so instead of the calculated 65 i use 63.2.

okay, 1.8cc is only going to change your compression by about .07, this wont even be noticed. and since the calculator is actually giving you an additonal 1.8cc in the chamber from its standard of calculations then you would acutally have to subtract that additional 1.8cc from your total chamber volume which is now giving you 11.06:1.

it's really as simple as this, you wont be able to run pump gas with the parts you listed. if running pump gas is a must then you're going to have to find another cam with more over lap/ a later intake closure so that it will be able to bleed off some of the compression/pressure inside of the cylinder. this is pretty cut and dry there is no other way to tell you man. sorry
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:02 PM
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what about a comp mutha thumpr it has .489 .476 lift so i could get away with the same springs. The duration at .050 235 249 but it has a closing point of 67 ABDC
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cunferferth
what about a comp mutha thumpr it has .489 .476 lift so i could get away with the same springs. The duration at .050 235 249 but it has a closing point of 67 ABDC

that's really hard to tell cause comp has the ABDC intake closure @ .006 and they dont list the number for the ABDC intake closure @ .050 which is the real number you need to know. just to let you know that comps thumper cams are just that thumpers but not performers, they are for those that really dont care what kind of power they make they just want the lope of a race car. i would still say that this wont be enough. really the easiest route you could take would be to buy another set of pistons say like a 12-18cc D dished piston. it will be real hard to find that exact cam that you're looking for and even when you do find it, it will probably be a much more aggressive cam that you are looking for since you mentioned having low lift springs.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:39 PM
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man oh man i just bought those pistons. How much volume can be added by unshrouding the valves being that hasnt been done
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
with -5cc flat tops, .025" in the hole, a .015x 4.060 head gasket, (.040 quench) and a 60cc combustion chamber you are right at 10.909:1
If they are reliefs and not dome they become a "positive" cc rather than a "negative" cc. If they were dome, they would be negative, reliefs are positive. The pistons I am running are the Speed Pro Hypereutectic dome top pistons http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...tModelId=10716. Here's more information as far as the cc's. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STL-H618CP60/ Mine are the H618CP60 because mine is bored .060" over. With a standard thickness gasket i am at 10.09:1 with 76cc heads. The dome on these pistons are -3.50cc's. So if he has reliefs, they're positive cc's. With the cam I have my dynamic compression ratio is 9.625:1. Generally speaking, as long as your not running massive amounts of air volume through the motor, the ceiling for pump gas is about 10:1.
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