355ci with destroyed piston!!! how? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 12:03 AM
DjTy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Caribbean
Age: 34
Posts: 46
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
355ci with destroyed piston!!! how?

So basically after my troubles in the past with oil pressure and all now the newly rebuilt 355ci stalled on me in city traffic (this engine has barely seen 5000rpm and never higher, temps were normal to peaking to about 200 in the hot weather here on an occasional hourlong afternoon of city traffic).

this is just a weekend driver and the new engine barely has 500 miles on it.

what happened was some coolant of the rad resulted in the oil pan which I think may have hydrolocked it, but on taking the head off the #8 cyl's sparkplug was damaged with the electrode missing in the middle of it.
here's what I encountered...

Click the thumbnails for the picture
here's the 2-4-6-8 bank with a nice #8 piston that has broken...


a close up of #8:



some junk also made it through to #2. the gasket on this side especially #8 seems pretty ok, but I don't have that sharp of an eye, can you guys see anything? I think maybe on the bottom...

I'm not too sure but the head gasket doesn't seem burned but then again I've never seen a burned one yet. It also doesn't appear that the valve nor the plug are the cause of the broken piston...

It has been mentioned to me that a too tight/incorrect ring gap may have caused this and my dad has been suspecting the mechanic's measurements since day one of the swap.

This is also the mechanic arguing with my dad that 0* initial advance is ok for a small block and priming with a drill at 3000rpm with less then 15 psi oil pressure is ok....

this has been standing for 4 days without the heads but covered and in a more or less rainproof car cover.

the mechanic has screwed up the rear cam bearing in the past and some other minor stuff so we're afraid he might not have delivered a good engine in the end. the engine had it's oil checked and replaced regularly in those few miles it did. (only 2months of driving... )

what do you guys think thew causes might be?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 12:17 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Brighton, MI
Posts: 60
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
looks like the top ring butted ends from the gap being too small to me
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 06:25 AM
FEDDO's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: middle ga
Posts: 369
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
piston

first, look at the pic, and you will see the broken piston, rings too tight did this. not enough ring gap. second 15 psi with a drill is nothing. I used a 1/2 '' drill and on a old eng i have was able to get 55 psi o/p. he may not be using the dist body. that has to be done in order for the press to go to both sides. my 2 cents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 06:40 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: michigan
Posts: 104
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I would highly recommend finding a new mechanic...sounds like he may have got his traing certificate from a box of Cracker Jacks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 08:52 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 875
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Whats all the junk in #2?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 11:20 AM
project69ss's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2001
Location: southern maine
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Looks to me like too small top ring end gap.maybe he thought .005"was .0005".and so on.YOU really need to re-check every measurement he took on this engine and do-ova,or look for somebody who knows what he's doing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 11:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Duffield ,Va
Age: 67
Posts: 526
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DjTy
So basically after my troubles in the past with oil pressure and all now the newly rebuilt 355ci stalled on me in city traffic (this engine has barely seen 5000rpm and never higher, temps were normal to peaking to about 200 in the hot weather here on an occasional hourlong afternoon of city traffic).

this is just a weekend driver and the new engine barely has 500 miles on it.

what happened was some coolant of the rad resulted in the oil pan which I think may have hydrolocked it, but on taking the head off the #8 cyl's sparkplug was damaged with the electrode missing in the middle of it.
here's what I encountered...

Click the thumbnails for the picture
here's the 2-4-6-8 bank with a nice #8 piston that has broken...


a close up of #8:



some junk also made it through to #2. the gasket on this side especially #8 seems pretty ok, but I don't have that sharp of an eye, can you guys see anything? I think maybe on the bottom...

I'm not too sure but the head gasket doesn't seem burned but then again I've never seen a burned one yet. It also doesn't appear that the valve nor the plug are the cause of the broken piston...

It has been mentioned to me that a too tight/incorrect ring gap may have caused this and my dad has been suspecting the mechanic's measurements since day one of the swap.

This is also the mechanic arguing with my dad that 0* initial advance is ok for a small block and priming with a drill at 3000rpm with less then 15 psi oil pressure is ok....

this has been standing for 4 days without the heads but covered and in a more or less rainproof car cover.

the mechanic has screwed up the rear cam bearing in the past and some other minor stuff so we're afraid he might not have delivered a good engine in the end. the engine had it's oil checked and replaced regularly in those few miles it did. (only 2months of driving... )

what do you guys think thew causes might be?
What kind of piston (forged; hyperutechtic,cast) also were they file fit rings, need some more info!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 12:01 PM
DjTy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Caribbean
Age: 34
Posts: 46
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgcantrellsr
What kind of piston (forged; hyperutechtic,cast) also were they file fit rings, need some more info!

part# on piston and its ring kit:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...RW-8KH345NCP30

basically a value set of 4.030 flat top (with valve relief) hypereutectic federal mogul pistons & rings to which the block was bored and honed to each piston (the mechanic said)...

Edit:

I've only done about 300 miles after the rebuilt... only city driving... no high rpm's...

Do you guys know if there's any way to be sure that the cause is indeed an incorrect ring-end-gap?

Last edited by DjTy; 04-05-2007 at 12:07 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 12:39 PM
project69ss's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2001
Location: southern maine
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
when you pull the pistons out check the ring gap on all of them.also check piston to wall clearance to any chevy overhaul manual with an engine section.chances are good there are a lot more things wrong with what he did.
if you go by the book you are never wrong...er well unless the book has a misprint...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 01:14 PM
junior stocker's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Everett, Washington
Age: 63
Posts: 821
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Was this a complete out of the car rebuild or an in the car overhaul? It looks like the valley area is'nt all that clean for 500 miles. Is there/was there cylinder wall ridge or was the block bored? The piston top looks like top ring clearence too tight but those rings from Summit are'nt file to fit type of rings. This is the kind of problem seen more with the KB Hypers with the top ring close to the piston top and therefore requiring more ring gap due to more heat. Did'nt find any foreign material in the cylinder? Sidewall clearence? Bearings? Could be lots of things, but like everyone says, you need to get a different mechanic for sure. Are the cylinder walls damaged?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 01:20 PM
seriousracer's Avatar
be a man dodge tree bark!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: south bend in
Posts: 167
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
looks like the rings touched.....
any nitros?
being the rear cylinder what was your idle speed?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 01:43 PM
project69ss's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2001
Location: southern maine
Posts: 53
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
on a side note even non file to fit rings need to be measured to double check manufacturer.
just like bearings,pistons,etc...maybe Joe assembly worker was having a bad day and put a +0.010" main in a +0.020" main box. so many variables when keeping tight tolerances ultimately it is the assemblers responsibility to put it together right.measure everything.
last year i put together an engine with hardened push rods new from a reputable manufacturer(what do you use to pick up something very heavy/rhymes with pain)one rod did not have an oil hole on one end.I didn't notice.what an expensive mistake.
how much i hate to say it, ultimately it was my fault for not looking at them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 02:16 PM
DjTy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Caribbean
Age: 34
Posts: 46
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior stocker
Was this a complete out of the car rebuild or an in the car overhaul? It looks like the valley area is'nt all that clean for 500 miles. Is there/was there cylinder wall ridge or was the block bored? The piston top looks like top ring clearence too tight but those rings from Summit are'nt file to fit type of rings. This is the kind of problem seen more with the KB Hypers with the top ring close to the piston top and therefore requiring more ring gap due to more heat. Did'nt find any foreign material in the cylinder? Sidewall clearence? Bearings? Could be lots of things, but like everyone says, you need to get a different mechanic for sure. Are the cylinder walls damaged?
complete rebuilt, all new bearings, seals, gaskets, pistons, rings, camshaft etc. from the ground up, only crank was used. block was bored & honed by mechanic. in those 300-ish miles it had 3 oilchanges with the latest a week before the stall.

piston rings as in the link I provided were also federal mogul as the pistons. they were a piston+ring kit.

no foreign material, cylinderwalls of #8 damaged and to a lesser degree scratches on # 2..

@seriousracer:
No nitrous/boost/whatsoever, this is just a citytraffic N/A setup as a second car, not even a daily driver... did only 2 months of driving

Idle was at 600-700rpm.
(cam being 222*@.050 with 447lift. also a federal mogul/speedpro cam matched to compression, intake(performer eps) & torque converter (2000stall).)


this all has hit me very hard financially and it has also caused some distrust in local mechanics/shops and quite a discouragement as this is about the fourth time I basically wasted my year's savings on 3 bad engines with now the third time I having to swap this engine...

edit: this has always been running on 92octane!!!!

Last edited by DjTy; 04-05-2007 at 02:22 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 03:20 PM
junior stocker's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Everett, Washington
Age: 63
Posts: 821
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
It would appear by your location you're very limited on where you can go and who you can use for engine work. Time to learn to DIY as much as possible. It'll take longer, but you'll know it's done right and be proud of your effort. I feel your pain. I've been fighting a balance problem on a stroker 305 to 334 and it looks like the company that sold me the kit years ago ( now out of business ) sent me a 454 flex plate. I just learned of the little difference in 400/454 flex plates thanks to this site and I believe it was "Crosley" who spelled it out in the thickness of the weight. It's been a long project too. Who can you trust?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2007, 03:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Duffield ,Va
Age: 67
Posts: 526
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Hyper pistons need to have .0065 x bore= end gap street use
4.030 x .0065=.030 end gap; if the rings were not filed to fit with this clearance they will butt and jerk the ring land out. These pistons hold a lot of heat on the top ring.

drag is .0075 x bore
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
stroke to rod ratio jacobm99 Engine 28 12-16-2013 06:46 PM
383 vs 350 TheCiscoKid Engine 86 05-03-2008 04:10 PM
327 in 88 Truck pete379 Engine 101 01-19-2006 10:03 PM
longest rods in std deck 454 bbc?? deuce_454 Engine 11 01-30-2004 11:06 AM
Cam Help black66 Engine 3 05-12-2003 07:15 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.