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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 02:51 PM
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chalk and hair spray.

It's probably time to lay out an accurate grid on a level concrete floor with a chalk line and spray it with cheap hair spray so you won.t scuff it off. An old friend use to do the Alignment on his 427 Cobra with lines, levels, and an accurete steel yardstick.

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Old 12-01-2012, 03:39 PM
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Many thanks to all for the help and ideas. To a new member you sure showed the resources that are available on this forum. I will jack it up while on the lift and get the front tires off and see about getting some reference measurements. My initial thought when told of the caster situation was to get a set of adjustable upper A Arms. I have seen several of them advertised. The fact that this car was built over 8 years ago and has been driven over 9,000 miles leads me to believe that maybe I don't need to go as far as replacing the whole front end. No doubt I want to get it right without a bubba type fix.

I don't think it has lowered spindles, but the upper A Arm is above the frame just not enough! I will also check all the welds and look for possible frame issues. I think the frame on this old 37 is thicker than the one in my 55.

Again many thanks to all for your comments and help. I will keep you posted on what I find.

Regards,
Unk
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:49 PM
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Many of them do have adjustments. The point is, this car has no caster, something is wrong with it. So the arm may be mounted too far back to begin with, moving it forward only puts it where it belongs (possibly). There are only two ways this caster is off so far, one that upper mount is leaning forward or twisted in someway that is moving the front of the upper control arm in or the back of the upper control arm out, OR this strut/locator is mounted too far forward. An adjustable upper control arm would be the cats butt.

This is why I say to be sure you aren't binding the inner lower bushing on the control arm, until that is investigated there is nothing much to talk about. Because if moving it forward is going to bind it, something else needs to be done.

That bar keeps the ball joint end of the control arm from moving forward or rearward, it has very very little to do with the geometry (realistically) It locates the ball joint, that is about it. Of course you don't want to move it a ton, but we haven't gotten that far in the discussion. That ball joint IS too far back, or the upper one is to far forward, so it isn't right now.

Brian
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:54 PM
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By the way, if we want to look at it like a regular lower control arm, real cars and trucks have adjustable lower control arms, they move all over, to locate the lower ball joint in alignments.

Brian
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:55 PM
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Many of them do have adjustments. The point is, this car has no caster, something is wrong with it. So the arm may be mounted too far back to begin with, moving it forward only puts it where it belongs (possibly). There are only two ways this caster is off so far, one that upper mount is leaning forward or twisted in someway that is moving the front of the upper control arm in or the back of the upper control arm out, OR this strut/locator is mounted too far forward.

This is why I say to be sure you aren't binding the inner lower bushing on the control arm, until that is investigated there is nothing much to talk about. Because if moving it forward is going to bind it, something else needs to be done.

That bar keeps the ball joint end of the control arm from moving forward or rearward, it has very very little to do with the geometry. It locates the ball joint, that is about it. That ball joint IS too far back, or the upper one is to far forward, so it isn't right now.

Brian
Show me one that is ajustable... If you draw a line right down the center of the crossmember the ball joints should be on this line.. Moving the BOTTOM arm off this line isn't right.. I still would like to see one that is ajustable..

You need to keep this all in line..
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:56 PM
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By the way, if we want to look at it like a regular lower control arm, real cars and trucks have adjustable lower control arms, they move all over, to locate the lower ball joint in alignments.

Brian
Not on a mustang II..
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:05 PM
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Not on a mustang II..
But similar cars. You are right Randy, it that location for the strut arm is right, leave it and fix what is wrong, likely with an adjustable upper arm.

Brian
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:06 PM
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I just noticed something on your specs, I didn't even think to look at other numbers, your SAI is WAY, WAY off! You need to look at this whole thing a lot closer.

Brian
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:09 PM
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But similar cars. You are right Randy, it that location for the strut arm is right, leave it and fix what is wrong, likely with an adjustable upper arm.

Brian
Now are we talking about two different things... Your now saying upper arms..

I was saying you can't adjust the strutrod.. And yes they sell some.. But I don't think you will find it for this year front end... I was saying He needs to check centerline to see if both ball joints are in line.. You don't want one forward of the other.. That line needs to be inline..
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
By the way, if we want to look at it like a regular lower control arm, real cars and trucks have adjustable lower control arms, they move all over, to locate the lower ball joint in alignments.

Brian
I didn't know a Mustang II wasn't a real car..

And yes they have adjustment on the bottom a-arms on REAL cars.. But I bet the center of the ball joints are still in line once it's set..
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by timothale View Post
It's probably time to lay out an accurate grid on a level concrete floor with a chalk line and spray it with cheap hair spray so you won.t scuff it off. An old friend use to do the Alignment on his 427 Cobra with lines, levels, and an accurete steel yardstick.
Most of the time when someone install's a factory mustang II on a car like this,, That is the best way to do it..
Most shop's try to set it and can't do it right..
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
I didn't know a Mustang II wasn't a real car..

And yes they have adjustment on the bottom a-arms on REAL cars.. But I bet the center of the ball joints are still in line once it's set..
I was talking about an adjustable strut/locator bar OR the upper control arm. Any way you do it, moving the control arm moves the ball joint, that is what you are doing when you move the control arm. The alignment is simply the location of the upper and lower pivot points, be it upper and lower ball joints on this car, or lower ball joint and an untouchable upper point on a macpherson strut car. If you move the upper or the lower control arm, you move the upper or lower ball joint/pivot point.

That is how you get the alignment, by moving those ball joint locations.

I couldn't find any adjustable Mustang II but found earlier Mustang ones.



I have no idea why I put "real", it's a sarcastic remark of mine about things like "real" parts stores. It wasn't needed there because I love those little Mustang II's! But many cars and trucks the lower control arm moves with eccentric washers or even just slotted holes. Simply loosen up the bolt, move the arm over and tighten it back up, the rear of a Saturn SV1 does this as an example. Many late model cars have an adjustable lower control arm very much like this one with the strut rod, the bushing at the crossmember has an eccentric washer that pushes the control arm in and out to get the camber desired. The lower ball joint is being moved in and out to get that camber.

Most A arms like on a Chevy truck have upper and lower A arms with full eccentric adjustment top and bottom.

I am worried about this SAI because that means that an inner pivot point has been moved in or out some how without effecting the caster or camber being all that those are real close.



How can the SAI be off 9 degrees! The only answer is the inner mounts are different from one side to the other along with a bent spindle or different mounting points at the inner side of the control arms! Being all those points are not adjustable, the spindle would have to be bent and the point mount moved, at least that is all I can imagine.

If this readout had included "Included angle" we would have a lot better idea. But something is seriously screwed up.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
I was talking about an adjustable strut/locator bar OR the upper control arm. Any way you do it, moving the control arm moves the ball joint, that is what you are doing when you move the control arm. The alignment is simply the location of the upper and lower pivot points, if you move the upper or the lower control arm, you move the upper or lower ball joint/pivot point.

That is how you get the alignment, by moving those ball joint locations.

I couldn't find any adjustable Mustang II but found earlier Mustang ones.



I have no idea why I put "real", it's a sarcastic remark of mine about things like "real" parts stores. It wasn't needed there because I love those little Mustang II's! But many cars and trucks the lower control arm moves with eccentric washers or even just slotted holes. Simply loosen up the bolt, move the arm over and tighten it back up, the rear of a Saturn SV1 does this as an example. Many late model cars have an adjustable lower control arm very much like this one with the strut rod, the bushing at the crossmember has an eccentric washer that pushes the control arm in and out to get the camber desired. The lower ball joint is being moved in and out to get that camber.

Most A arms like on a Chevy truck have upper and lower A arms with full eccentric adjustment top and bottom.

I am worried about this SAI because that means that an inner pivot point has been moved in or out some how without effecting the caster or camber being all that those are real close.



How can the SAI be off 9 degrees! The only answer is the inner mounts are different from one side to the other along with a bent spindle or different mounting points at the inner side of the control arms!

If this readout had included "Included angle" we would have a lot better idea. But something is seriously screwed up.
Good luck...

And so YOU know..That's the wrong strut rods..for what he has..
This is the right rod for his front end..

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
Now are we talking about two different things... Your now saying upper arms..

I was saying you can't adjust the strutrod.. And yes they sell some.. But I don't think you will find it for this year front end... I was saying He needs to check centerline to see if both ball joints are in line.. You don't want one forward of the other.. That line needs to be inline..
You are absolutely right!

Brian
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
Good luck...

And so YOU know..That's the wrong strut rods..for what he has..
'


I know I know, but they are basically the same in that they do the same thing. I wonder why they don't make one for the Mustang II of they make one for the earlier Mustang? Other than not being as popular but you would think someone would make one.

Good luck is right, something is goofed up here. If it drives "ok" and it does what the owner wants it to do, I guess it will do the job as is.

Brian
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