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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
'


I know I know, but they are basically the same in that they do the same thing. I wonder why they don't make one for the Mustang II of they make one for the earlier Mustang? Other than not being as popular but you would think someone would make one.

Brian
It's for a 67, And I posted a picture so you will know the difference.. There not the same..

Go ahead and do you thing Brian..If you going to give advice on a front end.. Please give the right advice.. Becareful what you tell the man to do..

I'm done..

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
It's for a 67, And I posted a picture so you will know the difference.. There not the same..

Go ahead and do you thing Brian..If you going to give advice on a front end.. Please give the right advice.. Becareful what you tell the man to do..

I'm done..
Randy, I didn't say to use those, I said they were the same basic design and wonder why they don't make one for the Mustang II, what exactly do you mean?

Brian
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Randy, I didn't say to use those, I said they were the same basic design and wonder why they don't make one for the Mustang II, what exactly do you mean?

Brian
Same basic design !!!! Don't look like it to me.. If you start pushing the bottom arm forward or backwards they will start to bind.. What he needs to do is check to see first, Is make sure these are inline WITH the crossmember.. I'm not saying this is his problem.. But it's the first thing I would check to be sure one of the arms is not out of line.. (Because someone might have welded one of the strut brackets more forward then the other..)

Just think about this.. These arms was made to stick straite out the side off this crossmember.. The strut rod was added to THIS set up to hold THAT arm in place..(because it wasn't a true a-arm) Why would you want one of you lowwer ball joints ahead of the other.. Or behind the other.. This Make no sense at all.. And as far as the new cars go.. I would be willing to bet.. there isn't one with the ball joints pass the other.. The top is one thing.. But I really believe the bottoms are in line..

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
Same basic design !!!! Don't look like it to me.. If you start pushing the bottom arm forward or backwards they will start to bind.. What he needs to do is check to see first, Is make sure these are inline WITH the crossmember.. I'm not saying this is his problem.. But it's the first thing I would check to be sure one of the arms is not out of line.. (Because someone might have welded one of the strut brackets more forward then the other..)

Just think about this.. These arms was made to stick straite out the side off this crossmember.. The strut rod was added to THIS set up to hold THAT arm in place..(because it wasn't a true a-arm) Why would you want one of you lowwer ball joints ahead of the other.. Or behind the other.. This Make no sense at all.. And as far as the new cars go.. I would be willing to bet.. there isn't one with the ball joints pass the other.. The top is one thing.. But I really believe the bottoms are in line..
You are absolutely right and said better than I did, thank you. We aren't talking about having one ahead of the other, we are talking about making them both the same I think the original poster understood that being the caster is off almost the exact same. You are correct if all the parts are in good condition and exactly as it came from the factory you bet your butt the ball joints are in almost perfectly the same position side to side. It's when the car gets some miles on it that all gets changed. With a sagging frame or bent components for example a car needs to get aligned, why would any original car ever need an alignment? Because something changes, so yes the ball joint, (pivot point) gets moved over time, you then want to move it back to the original position. It's very common to move sub frames around to get proper alignment specs. That is what an alignment is about. And of course as you pointed out they are in the wrong place on this car, the pivot points are in the wrong place, correct? So, you have to move them back to where they belong. This takes moving the control arms, that is why he needs to either change the mounting points of these control arms (a BIG project) or get adjustable control arms, or make these adjustable somehow. But it's so far off (basically about SIX degrees caster) and the SAI has to be dealt with, just a little moving of the ball joint via an adjustable control arm still may not do it being 6 degrees is a LONG way.
I was thinking these adjustable control arms are his best bet, what do you think? But then I saw that it was only for with coil overs, I don't understand that part maybe you can help with that, why would it matter?



FORD MUSTANG II SPC Performance Street Rod and Musclecar Control Arms 94000 - SummitRacing.com

Anyway, there is a bunch of work to get this thing close, the suspension was obviously installed poorly. The guy didn't think about it as you would and make sure those ball joints are in the proper location.

Brian
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:47 PM
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I aree with some of it... But not with moving the bottom ball joint... I would first check them to make sure they are in lin.. Then once I see that it's ok.. I then would do a lot of measurements.. I think becuse of the different frame then the mustang frame.. Where it's hitting on that upper corner,, I would cut that corner out and add in a half pipe or something to give it the room it need's.. But ONLY if I didn't find anything else wrong.. Giving this spot some room to clear the frame might be all it needs..

As far as that a-arm being only for coilovers.. It has a lot to do with a smaller top hat.. I don't remember the measurements off the top of my head,, But some also shim the top arm up some also.. There's a measurement that you can stay with end to work.. I will have to try in find it.. I think I seen it on the paper work when I installed the Mustang II on my 50 chevy coupe..

Again.. I would check this thing from top to bottom before I made a move..


Plus on these frontends.. The slot's on top need to be opened up some..(More slot..)

Very hard sometimes to fix something you can't see first hand.. A few Mins under the car And Might just slap you in the face..

What could have happen also when they installed this front end.. They could have Moved the top hats in to far.. So many different things could be the problem.. But the first thing I would do.. Is check the bottom a-arms to make sure they are in line.. Then work for there..

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:53 PM
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It's a shame someone welded that front end in without properly checking all that stuff. I got you on that control arm, it's too small to fit over the stock crossmember where the spring seat is? Ahhhhh, that sucks because that control arm would give him a bunch of adjustment all over, darn it. Maybe something like that can be found for him.

On the lower ball joint being moved, I am only saying to do this if nothing can be done with the top, and simply moving them forward would give some caster. But again, it has so far to go you are probably right to stick to the upper end.

Brian
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
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It's a shame someone welded that front end in without properly checking all that stuff. I got you on that control arm, it's too small to fit over the stock crossmember where the spring seat is? Ahhhhh, that sucks because that control arm would give him a bunch of adjustment all over, darn it. Maybe something like that can be found for him.

On the lower ball joint being moved, I am only saying to do this if nothing can be done with the top, and simply moving them forward would give some caster. But again, it has so far to go you are probably right to stick to the upper end.

Brian
I'm really thinking it's in the top.. I think if I'm reading this right.. The back of the top hat is hitting the frame and not letting him be able to move it in to set it..



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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:07 PM
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I would be willing to bet the guy that installed this cut away some of the inside of the top hat to give more room to fit the wider frame inside between the top hats.. Putting the outside of the frame to close to the top a-arms..
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:37 PM
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I agree with all of you that something is screwed up! I am serious about trying to find out the root cause, then I can look for the best solution. The issue that got me looking at it was the Previous Owner told me he just had a 4 wheel alignment done and I could visually see that the Camber was off - one side was positive and the other was negative. During the alignment I had done, the tech said one of the bolts on the upper cross shaft was loose. He found the Caster issue.

I have some things in the way of pulling strings and using levels on it right now. I should be able to get to it next week. Once I get a handle of relative relationship of various points, I will keep you posted. I plan on checking front to back level of cross member, side to side level of cross member, center line of strut rod mounts to centerline of cross member, etc.

Once again thanks for all the thoughts,
Unk
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:38 PM
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Randy, it could be that simple really, notch the frame and fill the hole with a piece of tubing as you mentioned. First we have to see a photo from the top to see if there is that much room in the slot on the upper control arm. But again, we are talking a minimum of 4 or 5 degrees that is a long way, and there is still the SAI issue.

Unk,I hope things go smoothly let us know what you find.

Brian
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:42 PM
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As far as I know.. They make a off set bar for the top a-arm..
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:44 PM
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I checked with my supplier and they don't, but that was just one place.

Brian
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:57 PM
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I checked with my supplier and they don't, but that was just one place.

Brian
I just looked online.. I thought for sure they made some..
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:58 AM
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pinto-MII racers

A guy I used to work with road raced his pinto, I think some of the guys in his class custom built tubular Upper A arms, 1 in DOM, chrysler screw ball joint sockets They were more of a wide U instead of an A shape. It might be easier for the new owner to Buy a new bolt in crosmember, cut out the stock one and use His pieces, The Mustang II stock crowmember probably should have been notched to get it the right level position, It looks like the spring pockets are still factory welded. My son still has the pieces to put a stock crosmember under his 36 plymouth coupe. He looked at a car last summer at a car show and said the guy had built a couple wedges to go between the stock crosmember and the frame to get IT Right. The chevy front frame rails are fairley straight, the ply dodge cars hump up the frame . If the original builder just C clamped the stock crosmember to the frame everything started wrong. Frame should have been at ride height and rake. then the crosmember adjusted by notching or wedging make everything plumb, level, square, take it apart and grind or sand blast the crosmember weld area both sides inside and outside of the weld area, hospital clean, I have seen stuff welded where the other side of the metal was coated with grease and crud, hard to get a good weld welding in greasy mud contaminating everything, . tack, recheck, tack recheck.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:54 PM
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would just using tube type arms like these, give him enough clearance at the frame, to make the needed adjustments?

or maybe some narrowed upper arms like these shoved out to make room?
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