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Old 02-11-2008, 08:51 PM
Rob Keller's Avatar
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Question 378450 heads 60 CC

I found these heads what are they good for?

Whould they improve my performance on my SB 400 {stone stock}

How would it run on pump gas







R

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Old 02-11-2008, 09:07 PM
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Because of the smaller combustion chambers the compression ratio will be higher if your 400 has the typical 76cc smogger heads on it now.
If the cr of your stock 400 is say 8.5:1 (stock dished pistons-76cc heads) then your new cr with 60cc heads will be 9.80:1 using the same thickness head gasket.
You'll want to run your 400 on 92 octane fuel and switch to a slightly cooler heat range spark plug with the increased compression ratio.
the "450" casting heads were originally used on 267 and 305ci motors.
The valves are quite a bit smaller than the valves on your 400 heads.
The smaller valves will restrict the airflow a bit so top end breathng will be less.
Less ultimate peak power potential. If you just bolt them on as is. but a mid range torque boost from the increased compression ratio.
If you were to rework the 450 heads with equal sized or even large valves and some hand porting you'd end up with more power and torque form increased airlfow and high compression ratio.
This would open the door to upgradeing the camshaft in your 400.
A moderate duration street hyd cam combined with ported big valve reworked 450 heads would make for a pretty snappy responsive low budget 400ci street motor. (about 350-360 hp and a ton of torque)

Not my favourite 305 head casting for budget head swapping but......

Early 400's (1970 330hp) came with a flat top piston (10:1). later low cr ones came with a dished piston and large chamber heads. Is yours the flat top or dished piston version?
What is the casting number on your 400 cylinder heads?
400 blocks and cylinder heads have a few extra coolant flow holes in the decks to aid cooling the siamesed cylinder bores. You would want to drill the same holes to match on any other cylinder head you were to swap on in place of the stock 400 heads. And use a 400SBC head gasket.
Not a big deal to do.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 02-11-2008 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:34 PM
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3951509 the 2nd generation 400 1980 & I drive it like a old man its in a 3+3 Dualie so I am looking for more torque.

Stump pulling

I have no Idea if its the dished pistons its a Bone stock ~ C~30 camper motor with 30,000 on it when installed. now 36,000

It is the High perf model [4 bbl]

Quote:
Not my favorite 305 head casting for budget head swapping but......
Now you have my attention ! {oh boy Oh BOY OOO BOY!!!}I need more power but am really stuck in the low budget land.

What kinda cam should I be looking @


Oh boy higher gas prices per gallon



Thanks for the info.




R
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:52 PM
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Being a dualie you want to keep the cam mild. Tho good old melling MTC-1 204-214-112-.420-.442 always works well.
Summit #K1102.
You'd probably want to add some torky headers and dual exhaust to work with the cam.

Just realize that once you bump the compression ratio up say goodbye to cheap 87 octane fuel.

I'd spend some time working on the 450's ports and upgrade the valve size to wake them up.
You have to watch your total budget or..........can get to be a slippery slope in hurray. Like if the guides are all pouched in the 450 heads, forget it.

You realize that there are lots of ways to skin a cat.
A stock set of vortec heads + vortec manifold and mild similar hi tork- RV cam would make a killer 400 dualie motor.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

I'm able to pull the cheapo 305 head swap stuff off cause I am able to do 95% of the mods at home and just have to pay someone for the most basic nesssessary machining etc.
it comes down to $$$'s and sense.

First thing you want to do is look and see what heads are on your motor now and go form there. A carefull well planed cost/budget analysis is nessessary.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 02-11-2008 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 02-11-2008, 10:01 PM
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How much & what #'s of vortec heads are you talking about?

Here are the heads on it now.

462624 Heads



R
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Old 02-11-2008, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Keller
How much & what #'s of vortec heads are you talking about?

Here are the heads on it now.

462624 Heads



R
I posted a link to the GM assembled 062 vortec heads that summit sells.

462624 Wow. Lots of room for improvement. Low cr large 76cc chambers and usually valves just as small as the ones in the 450 heads. 1.74"x 1.50" ususally.

1.94" x 1.60" valves+ home hand porting+ a valve job and new seals is the minimum you'll need to do to the 450 heads + drill for 400 steam holes.
Can you do all that for less than $299/ head?
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Old 02-11-2008, 10:16 PM
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Kewl

thanks for the 411



R
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Keller
I found these heads what are they good for?

Whould they improve my performance on my SB 400 {stone stock}

How would it run on pump gas







R
The correct casting number is 376450. These are heads for the crappy 262, 267 engines; some also found their way onto 305s. Small valves, small ports early thin wall, crack prone castings, they don't like porting nor larger valves (they crack between the intake and exhaust seats and from the exhaust seat into the wall. Even modified they will be woefully inadequate for a 400 (327 or 350 for that matter). They are junk and need to be treated as such. It will cost a lot of money to make them marginally useful, money better spent on better heads. Been there, done that!

Bogie
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:19 AM
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http://www.competitionproducts.com/p...er=PCH353-DP-1

This is a repro of one of the best Vortec castings available the "906" and at 287.00 a piece fully assembled you really can't beat the price.


I purchased these 305 heads off ebay for $400 shipped to my door. I did quite a bit of porting but in hindsight I would have purchased the heads above if I had found them sooner.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWN:IT&ih=016
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:21 AM
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Rob-

How is it that you have almost 4,000 posts but don't know about 305 and vortec heads anyways or maybe you do and I am preaching to the choir here.
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_v23
Rob-

How is it that you have almost 4,000 posts but don't know about 305 and vortec heads anyways or maybe you do and I am preaching to the choir here.
The truth be known I am a old skool junk Yard dog.
I've killed more cars than I could ever possibly fix.

Plus while I was blissfully crushing tuners the technology past me by like the fast & the furious .

4 years ago I could not Copy & Paste or post a photo on the INTERNET
AND I thought I knew a thing or two about auto electrical systems until I met

Doc Vette {{RIP Brother}}

Quite sad if I must say so myself now some of the people I meet think I am a puter nerd {jokes on them}.

Anyone who has ever lost a race & or tried to catch up to a hot Blondie in a fast car knows its hard to make up ground.

Yea I put a 1980 Carbed 400 into a 1988 Chevy 3+3 dualie ripped all the puter stuff out {had a TBI 454}{had no motor @ all & Had to make due with what I had]

And Because I know I will not have to worry about needing a scanner to make my truck run.

Busts off every time like a old skool truck should.

So now 20 years behind the times ,I fight kicking & screaming into the future ,which coincides with my price range .LOL

Kids now a days have the whole world @ their finger tips where I had to go to the library read books & learn from the school of hard knocks.

I guess when someone says "Vortec" I immediately think TBI & computers .

I do believe I have been thinking incorrectly.


Damn I feel old & UN edumakated now

I have book marked all those threads on "quench" & stuff of that sort but have not read & understood it all. . . .YET.

If I can keep two vehicles on the road @ the same time I might be able to play with one.

I hope this aleaves your fears about preaching to the choir.

I am not a attorney ,I would not ask a question I already knew the answer to .

Those Stats up in the corner are kinda prejudicial but it gives you a feel about who you are talking to ,but not a accurate judgment of the real person behind the words.

Quote:

ME

"ain't no Measure of a man by the size of his wallet"

LOL

As Always;
Thanks to all for the replies & information .

Sorry for the long winded answer ,but you asked for it!





R
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Old 02-12-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
The correct casting number is 376450. These are heads for the crappy 262, 267 engines; some also found their way onto 305s. Small valves, small ports early thin wall, crack prone castings, they don't like porting nor larger valves (they crack between the intake and exhaust seats and from the exhaust seat into the wall. Even modified they will be woefully inadequate for a 400 (327 or 350 for that matter). They are junk and need to be treated as such. It will cost a lot of money to make them marginally useful, money better spent on better heads. Been there, done that!

Bogie
Bogie, some of these heads were heavy castings (as heavy as 441's and the 60's era stuff). I have a pair off of one of those little 1975 3.1 stroke motors and they are thick! I'm not sure of the casting number I have but they had 55cc chambers when I started and ended up with 64cc after unshrouding. Ported with 1.94/1.5 valves they work well on a 350 4WD combo I put together but they do sign off at 5500rpm. I just wanted to clarify-some of these little engines had heavy castings.
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