38 year old paint unbelievably tough! Ideas? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2003, 05:17 PM
GMW GMW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 173
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Unhappy 38 year old paint unbelievably tough! Ideas?

I'm trying to strip my 65 Chevelle Malibu SS and can't believe how tough the factory paint is. It has the original paint job (Red Oxide primer with 2D Mist Blue Metallic) plus one additional coat of what appears to be Black Laquer over the factory paint. Obviously the factory paint is 38 years old and I know for a fact the Black Laquer is at least 30 years old, probably a little older. (I owned the same car in 1974/1975 and it was black then.) Its been setting outside for the past 28 years (had a 1976 license plate on it when I bought it a few months ago) and the paint has faded to almost a flat black.

Anyway, the black comes off fairly easy. It actually kind of balls up in real small pieces rather than sanding off into dust. But then the Blue and Red Oxide are unreal.

My DA with 40 grit on it won't even touch it unless I push so hard the DA slows down until its lost enough RPM it wouldn't do anything anyway.

I tried stripping a few small areas and it takes at least 3 times to get through it all to bare metal. The first time takes off the Black, the second the Blue, and the third the Red Oxide. Theres no way I'm going to strip the whole car 3 times. Even then considerable sanding is needed to get everything remaining after 3 strips.

Earlier tonight I put a 60 grit flap disc on my Metabo and NOT EVEN THAT does much. I actually was screwing up the body lines by digging in to much in some areas while trying to get through the paint in others. I guess all I'm left with is media blasting.

Has anyone else dealt with this tough of paint while stripping? If so, how'd you deal with it?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2003, 06:02 PM
Dawger's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Springville CA
Posts: 31
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
GMW
If the stock paint is still good (not cracked or glazed ) Keep it on . Just think of if as a super tough base coat. Sand off the black smooth up the stock stuff and prime over it. Going down to bare metal can cause a whole bunch of other problems. I sanded through on a couple spots on my charger Now i cant get my primer to cure in those areas . Also It will require more body work to get it straight again. We just did a friends 62 impala. It was prety straight to begin with he sanded it to bare metal. After the first coat of primer all the highs and lows showed up. After 2 1/2 gallons of primer and a whole lot of sanding we got it straight again. If your intent on going to bare metal I know people that have used ground up walnut or almond shells as a blasting media. Its suposed to be ok on the sheet metal but I havent used this myself. These are plentiful here in as there are plenty of nut processing plants in my area.
Good luck on the project Dawger
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-21-2003, 07:49 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 1932 Chevrolet Confederate Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had the same problem on my 65 Chevelle. I used a 7 inch Milwaukee grinder with abacking pad and Norton 40 grit blue disks. It worked great. I stripped the entire car to bare metal in about a day and one half. I then went over it with 80 grit on the grinder. DA'ed it and then sprayed with PPG epoxy primer. Pictures of this on my website.

http://webpages.charter.net/65chevelle/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 04:29 AM
Kevin45's Avatar
Just one of the guys
 

Last journal entry: Garage Toys
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Urbana, Ohio
Age: 58
Posts: 3,058
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Why not just use a liquid stripper if you want to go to the metal? Doing it with a DA is way too time consuming.

Kevin
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 08:32 AM
dinger's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: 36 Ford painting
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Visalia, Ca.
Age: 61
Posts: 2,711
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 102
Thanked 110 Times in 76 Posts
I agree with Dawger, you've got a good base. Dan
__________________
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 01:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ohio
Posts: 62
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sandblasting?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 02:19 PM
Stitch's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bournemouth , UK
Age: 56
Posts: 140
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Kevin's right liquid stripper is the way to go , if you get too heavy handed with a disc you could get the metal hot and stretch it giving yourself even more bodywork to do . If you find the paint tough with liquid stripper - put a good thick coat on then cover it with cling film (I think you call it Siran wrap? ) and leave it overnight then it should be easy with a scraper and steel wool . Then just use a sander with 120 discs to clean off any dried on residue.

Last edited by Stitch; 11-23-2003 at 04:16 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 04:38 PM
adtkart@aol.com
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 3,220
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I would also use the stripper. Get the stuff from the parts/paint supplier, not from the local Home Depot, unless they carry Aircraft stripper.

I just got done stripping the door jambs, rocker panels, trunk opening and rear body panels of my 67 Stang. I masked the jambs to protect the interior, applied the stripper, let it work for about 30 minutes, scraped the excess off with a scraper, used steel wool on them, wiped them down with laquer thinner, then went over them with a wire brush on a die grinder. Total time involved from paint to bare metal was about 3 hours. That included a couple of breaks to wash the stuff off the skin! OUCH that stuff really burns!

Make sure you wear protective clothing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 06:15 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 1932 Chevrolet Confederate Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There is always more than one way to skin a cat. I have used aircraft striper in the past. Over time and several frame ups I have found the 7" grinder to be the best method for me. And yes I do use a harbor freight 40 pound sandblaster. I've never had a problem with warpage it just isn't powerful enough to generate that much heat. A bigger one could. I'm very pleased with the results. No worries about stripper leaching out a crack or crevice. No worries about paint cracking or being incompatible with the new paints. I have also painted cars leaving the old paint on and using a sealer but the best foundation for a new paint job is what the factory started with, bare metal. A lot depends on what you want in the end.

http://webpages.charter.net/65chevelle/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 06:49 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 51
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
When I read this thread and the recommended uses of grinders and 40 grit with a DA I thought to myself, "YIKES! There goes the body lines." Major Dad put new quarters and door skins on his Malibu, (nice project MD and congrats on doing it over a very tight schedule). Seriously, though be super careful with the DA's and grinders. It takes a deft touch and alot of experience to use one properly. A new guy, reading this thread might attempt it and ruin his project.

I'm with MD and agree that bare metal is the best foundation to start out with. That way you uncover any bad spots and can fix them properly before painting. Paint ain't cheap! It would be a shame to have someone's bad body work come back and haunt you later on.

Every method to strip has it's advantages and disadvantages. SprayStrip works good for chemical stripping. If you go with media stripping choose a gentle media and an experienced operator. Cleanup is a bit-ch though, media gets everywhere. Sometimes a combination of methods is what works best. Good luck with your project and reunion with an old friend.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 06:58 PM
1967Camaro's Avatar
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Grand Rapids, Mn.
Age: 55
Posts: 6
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Don't leave the old finish on. It is a laquer and has long out lived it's life.
You can use Air craft stripper or another method is the mechanical, I use a 36 grit sanding disc, not a grinding, 7", with an air grinder. Keeping the rpms down will help keep the heat down and help to keep the pad from loading up. After this I go over it with 80 grit on the da in the spin mode then on to 180 in oscillating.
Use a self etching primer on the bare metal then a urethane primer to do your sanding with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 08:55 PM
GMW GMW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 173
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well fellows I'm familiar with all your suggestions, stripping, blasting, sanding...I was hoping sombody knew a trick for 38 year old laquer like spray a coat of snake oil on it to soften it up or something.

I figured it was going to come down to elbow grease. I'm definately going to bare metal. Thats the only way to see whats underneath.

Major Dad, you have just finished going down the road I'm starting on and your Chevelle looks nice! I also need full length floor pans, (ordered from OPG tonight) all three trunk panels with braces and gas tank supports, metal under the tail lights, etc. I've been replacing all the rust that you can't get replacement panels for (around the windows, in the door jams, bottom side of the firewall. If this wasn't the same Chevelle I owned in high school I wouldn't be doing it. But...a few years from now...ye haw!You wouldn't have a spare set of front bucket seats or a windshield would ya?

Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2003, 09:18 PM
4 Jaw Chuck's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Age: 46
Posts: 4,974
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 89 Times in 72 Posts
Soda blast, the panels look like silk after and it does not warp even under extreme pressures like sand does. The particles are too light.
__________________
Outlawed tunes from outlawed pipes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2003, 06:14 AM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 1932 Chevrolet Confederate Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry GMW, no buckets or extra glass.
Try http://www.chevelles.com if you haven't already. They have a good buy/sell section.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2003, 08:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 51
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by 4 Jaw Chuck
Soda blast, the panels look like silk after and it does not warp even under extreme pressures like sand does. The particles are too light.
Agreed! I was going to mention soda in my post above, (I did say choose a gentle media) but not too many places offer it. Soda blasting is so gentle it can remove the paint from a soda can without distorting the aluminum. The soda crystals fracture on impact actually making small "explosion" which removes paint without disturbing the substrate. The media is only used once avoiding contaminents. It won't remove rust though. Cleanup is much easier too. Since the soda fractures on impact what is left is basically dust, making an airhose blowout much more effective. Also, since soda dissolves with water it can also be rinsed out of the nooks and crannys, if necessary, that plastic, shells or sand never seem to come completely out of.

It will save you a ton of work. If you can't find someone nearby who can do it, you may be able to rent the specialized pressue hopper delivery system, (ACCUSTRIP) and purchase the correct formulation of the media from the same source to do it yourself.
Check http://www.armex.com/faqs.htm for more details. If you call the company they can probably refer you to a distributor near you.

Soda blasting was developed in 1985 during the restoration of the Statue of Liberty, and has gained prominence over the last decade as a viable method of surface preparation, for a variety of industries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.