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Old 09-03-2010, 08:42 PM
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383 Build Opinions

Let me know what you all think of this as a starting point


880 4.030 block with splayed main caps and SCAT forged crank, fully balanced, with forged SCAT I-bean 5.7" rods and Probe forged flat tops
Vortec heads with Z28 springs handling max lift of .600, screw in studs, stock valves, ported exhaust port ceilings, and 1.6 roller rockers
Z28 Springs
GM Hot Cam kit Hot Cam kit
Edelbrock RPM Air Gap manifold with 750 CFM Mighty Demon Mighty Demon
HEI Distributor
Hedman Headers (still looking)
Electric fuel pump (unsure on what gph to choose?)
3" exhaust with Flowmaster Delta 40 series mufflers

Let me know what you all think so far?

Future plans would be selling the Vortecs and getting Dart Pro 1s for more flow. This is going in an 85 S10 with a 4l80 trans with a stall (unsure of stall) and beefed a little more. Input is welcome on the tranny as well. The S10 will be driven on the street and at the track sometimes...but nnot periodically. Thinking of a Ford 9" with 3.73 gearing

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Old 09-03-2010, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callmej75
Z28 springs handling max lift of .600
Z28 springs (SD 1004) will only handle 0.525" max lift. They install at 1.735" with 100 lbs on the seat and max out at 1.210" with 285 lbs over the nose. Coil bind is at 1.060". They are recommended for flat tappet camshafts. Rollers require more seat pressure and over the nose pressure. If you are going to use the hot cam kit, make sure it has SD1005 springs in it, not SD 1004. SD 1005's install at 1.800" with 130 lbs on seat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmej75
1.6 roller rockers
While I don't much care for 1.6 ratio rockers, they do allow more valve lift with the same cam lift. The L31 block has short tappet bores, so with any more than around 0.360" lift at the cam, you can push the tappets out of the bore, or so I've been told.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmej75
I don't think these are Z28 springs, as Z28 springs have a SD1004 part number. I know what the link says, but I'm pretty sure these are aftermarket springs and someone just tagged them as heavy duty Z28. Of course, I have been wrong in the past, so could be wrong this time. If you are going with the hot cam kit, again, make sure it has SD 1005 springs for use with a roller cam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmej75
HEI Distributor
Good choice in my opinion. Get the adjustable vacuum can and adjustable limiter plate from Summit to dial in the ignition curve.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99600-1/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99619-1/
Put 14-16 degrees in at the crank, 18-20 degrees in centrifugal for a total of 34 and play with the vacuum to see what the motor wants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmej75
Hedman Headers (still looking)
Use only long tube headers. Shorty headers are junk and a total waste of your hard-earned dollars in my humble opinion. Use 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" primary tube size. 383's will make just a tad more power with the larger size, but may be down a little on torque low in the rpm range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmej75
Electric fuel pump (unsure on what gph to choose?)
Most all internal combustion gasoline engines will use 1/2 (0.5) lbs of gasoline per brake hp hour at full output. If your motor is making 450 hp, you would multiply 450 times 1/2 and find that the motor would be using 225 pounds per hour at full horsepower rating (like running at Bonneville for a new land speed record, not stoplight to stoplight). Since gasoline weighs about 6 lbs per gallon, if we divide the 225 by 6, we find that the motor will use 37.5 gallons per hour on its Bonneville run (it will use less stoplight to stoplight , but we'll work with this figure anyway). Now, because the forward motion of the car will try to push the fuel back to the tank and because the pump will have to push the fuel through relatively small diameter lines (1/2"), we double what we think it should be. 37.5 times 2 equals 75 gallons per hour. Anything close to that would do the job for a pump that would feed 450 hp. Mount a cartridge type filter right at the tank. Then mount an electric pump of the correct capacity right after the filter. Then mount a return regulator right after the pump and route the return line back to the tank. Run the feed line off the regulator (1/2" line) up to the carb. When you get your project running, mount a 0-15 psi mechanical fuel pressure gauge on the cowl in front of the windshield so you can read it while driving. This is only temporary, so you can mount it with tie wraps or duct tape or whatever. Run a mechanical line from the fuel inlet at the carburetor up to the gauge. Adjust the regulator to provide the carb with a max of 5 1/2 psi at the fuel bowl. Once you have the regulator dialed in, remove the gauge and line and you are set. Carburetors are not like EFI. More pressure will not make more hp. It will blow raw fuel past the needle and seat and into the intake manifold, providing you with unbelievable tuning nightmares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmej75
3" exhaust with Flowmaster Delta 40 series mufflers
3" is probably overkill for a small block Chevy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmej75
Future plans would be selling the Vortecs and getting Dart Pro 1s for more flow. This is going in an 85 S10 with a 4l80 trans with a stall (unsure of stall) and beefed a little more. Input is welcome on the tranny as well. The S10 will be driven on the street and at the track sometimes...but not periodically.
If that's your plan, I'd do it now. The L31's will require a lot of work and that money could better be put to use in some other heads. I don't know if I would use Dart Pro Ones exactly, but I sure wouldn't be spending any money on L31's at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmej75
Thinking of a Ford 9" with 3.73 gearing
Contact some of the shops that deal in diffs such as Tom's Differentials, Moser Engineering, Currie Enterprises, and possibly others I have not dealt with. Oftentimes, you can purchase a housing that has been narrowed and had the proper bosses welded on so that the diff is a "drop-in". It might not have to be a 9" Ford either. An 8 3/4" Mopar or 8.8" Ford would contain all the hp you could throw at it.
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:22 AM
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Thanks for taking the time out to go over that Tech.

Seems on Scoggey's site they have the 1004 and 1005 part numbers for the Z28 springs. I also pondered on Beehive springs too because they are a drop in replacement, rather than machining the seats.

Thanks for the thorough low down on the fuel thing! I really appreciate that..these numbers being thrown around about gph was all greek to me.

So the GM Hot Cam and rotating assembly sounded like a pretty solid plan i assume?

Once again...thanks!
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Old 09-04-2010, 09:52 AM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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[QUOTE=callmej75]Thanks for taking the time out to go over that Tech.

,,, its like school but I actually want to show up on time, pay attention and take notes cause I don't want to miss something lol

Just go'n through some numbers here on the combo, the SCR is nearly 11:1 with a 40 squish at zero deck + flat tops at 6cc, not sure about intake closing on the cam but even with 60 after closing your at 9:1 DCR 50 gives you 9:5 DCR. Am I miss'n something? Iron vortec heads,,,I can hear the rattle already unless the 75 gpm of fuel is 106 octane race gas.

Make a change to aluminum heads, get a bigger cam if on the track more, dish pistons for street use to get the SCR/DCR at approx 9:7/8:5 no higher then vortecs OK,,,and so it goes street or track machine? 2400 or 3200 stall, 3:73 or 4:56 etc etc. Spending all that extra on forged materials, if it were me I would build a mostly balls out 383 at that point.
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:30 PM
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Thanks Custom10, I missed the flat-tops.
18cc dish pistons would yield 9.7:1, a good match to the hot cam.
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:35 PM
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Dish pistons to bring the compression ratio down...check

Crunching numbers is what i am not good at...thanks guys!

Don't like detonation...detonation no good
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:51 PM
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Use a "D-cup" piston like those made by Keith Black. They have a generous flat deck on the crown of the piston to mate up with the underside of the cylinder head to generate a good squish which will allow the motor to be more octane tolerant and resist detonation. Open dish pistons have little or no squish pad on the crown.....like this one.....
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Old 09-04-2010, 02:39 PM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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Yep if you are going to drive it daily then you got to re think it for the street, personally I built the 9.5 ish to one street 383 like we are talking about with the KB 18cc D dish and vortec heads, 221 dur cam .454 lift, dual plane etc etc. Ya know since I only put maybe a tank a week through the truck in summer, sometimes I wish I woulda gone for the flat top/aluminum head barely streetable stormer, J75 you gotta decide on what the truck is all about and go from there, you can find many good examples of all out strokers on here that will tear the skirt off a nun but the milder street build takes some real attention to details to get it low grade pump gas friendly with no detonation/pre ignition etc.
Compression calc here:

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp

My next 383 if it ever happens will start with something like this:
http://skipwhiteperformance.com/listview.aspx?Product=T

add AFR 195 heads, single plane, holley 750 in a roller cam dyno buster
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Old 09-04-2010, 05:53 PM
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I see what you guys are saying...I would love to have a pair of AFRs but I'd have to save for a few months on them. I'd love to sell these Vortecs for a reasonable price and get some good aluminum heads but money restricts it all. I'd have to put the project on hold for a bit longer...but i guess it would be worth it in the end.

If you guys wanna do it...throw some parts like rotating assembly, heads, intake, cam, and good oiling system at me then I'll save for that and do some selling and build it to those specs! i know enough to turn a wrench and measure with a dial caliper for fabbing, but when it comes to crunching numbers, I'm pretty screwed at it! This is why i be here...

I am also ordering a 4 link section for the rear with frame and all...the current frame is just too rotted for nice power.

Remember...money is an issue or i'd have a big block to build on right now and fab up the engine bay for a blown 540ci! Just gimme a nice stump puller with a sizeable mid-top end power and i'll do my saving and start a new thread with lots of pics and full documentation on everything! Just gonna take time to get the parts...and if you guys run into anyone selling any good parts I'd be able to use then feel free to PM me!

Sound good? I know tech already gave me a full list of parts...but if we all can come to a good solid conclusion on what parts to get in minimal posts, I'll start saving now!

Damn I sound like a high school kid...
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:05 AM
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My 2 cents,
I can't remember the part #s, but I bought my rotating assy(minus pistons) directly from scat, and the salesman convinced me to go with 6" rods so that I could get the kit with internal balancing. That was until I switched to a 1 piece rear main seal block. It would still use the neutral balanced harmonic dampner in front, but would need an unbalanced flexplate in back. I don't know what an 880 block is, but if its a 1prms, it would still need an unbalanced flexplate/flywheel. The rods are the ones with the small end bushed, and the big end with 7/16" ARP capscrews instead of the 3/8" bolts. Supposed to be easier to clearance the block/cam. I haven't tried yet, but I hear thats the case. The rods look like a work of art compared to stock to me, and measure consistently. However they put the oil ring into the piston pin bore, but I hear thats fine with the correct rings. I'm going to buy some Mahle pistons with next years tax return.
You can get a set of stock roller lifters with a spider retainer and dogbones in a kit for a song compared to aftermarket lifters(pn 12371042). I can't say I like the snap ring inside the lifters, but thats just me. You may want to look into the spacing for the cam retaining plate as there were 2 different ones depending on the block.
Just some things to consider.
ssmonty
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:06 AM
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Thanks monty....I have the stock spider and roller lifters, so i was thinking of reusing them. Do roller lifters need to be changed half as much as flat tappet? I have never had them before. I also have the stock cam retaining plate and screws...so at least that much is covered! i have the stock oil pump which I may open it up some, according to Dave Vizards write up in his book, to increase oiling.
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