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Old 04-12-2013, 07:16 PM
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383 build ?'s

Hello,

I am a first time poster. I have been researching my build for quite some time and am finally getting things started. Due to budget constraints I can't get everything I'd like or the best but I think I can still meet my Goal of 380 hp and 400 lbs of tq.

Today I picked up a new Eagle 383 externally balanced rotating assembly and a TBI roller block from a guy in town for $500. This kit has the speed pro 12 cc round dished pistons. I dropped of my block at the machine shop to have the prep work done and get it bored .030 over.

The areas I have questions in is with regards to quench/ or lack of, and the intended 64 cc vortec heads. If I had inverted dome pistons that would be great but these are not and my budget only afforded the kit I have. With that can I expect any benefits of an .040 quench/squish with my pistons and the vortec heads? I ask because my compression looks like it is going to be around 10.2 to 1 with .040 quench. If I keep the deck @ .025 and use the standard .040 head gasket I can get my compression down to 9.6 or 9.7 but my quench would be .065. Would this be a recipe for detonation?

I think I want to run the roller lt4 hotcam with 1.6 rockers. 218/228 112 and .525 lift. I know I have to modify the vortec heads for this cam. This won't bleed of much compression but more than an RV cam.

This engine will be going in a 54 f100 and will never see the drag strip, just fun around town and cruising. Thank you very much! This is my first engine build.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:20 PM
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Oh yes, sorry to the ford guys for putting a SBC in the f100. I tried the 351w route but got burned on that deal. After looking for 2 months and unable to find much in my area I turned to the 383 because it was available.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:21 PM
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Welcome aboard, you have a lot of great questions and I could probably answer quite a few of them however, there are guys way more qualified than myself on this site so I'll let them chime in...their information would be tad more reliable than mine.

I do however have a question for you...why the name Malamute. There is an actual reason I asked.

Ray
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:30 PM
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the windsor route would make good power and keep the ford people happy.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
Hello,

I am a first time poster. I have been researching my build for quite some time and am finally getting things started. Due to budget constraints I can't get everything I'd like or the best but I think I can still meet my Goal of 380 hp and 400 lbs of tq.

Today I picked up a new Eagle 383 externally balanced rotating assembly and a TBI roller block from a guy in town for $500. This kit has the speed pro 12 cc round dished pistons. I dropped of my block at the machine shop to have the prep work done and get it bored .030 over.

The areas I have questions in is with regards to quench/ or lack of, and the intended 64 cc vortec heads. If I had inverted dome pistons that would be great but these are not and my budget only afforded the kit I have. With that can I expect any benefits of an .040 quench/squish with my pistons and the vortec heads? I ask because my compression looks like it is going to be around 10.2 to 1 with .040 quench. If I keep the deck @ .025 and use the standard .040 head gasket I can get my compression down to 9.6 or 9.7 but my quench would be .065. Would this be a recipe for detonation?

I think I want to run the roller lt4 hotcam with 1.6 rockers. 218/228 112 and .525 lift. I know I have to modify the vortec heads for this cam. This won't bleed of much compression but more than an RV cam.

This engine will be going in a 54 f100 and will never see the drag strip, just fun around town and cruising. Thank you very much! This is my first engine build.
A 383 with 12cc pistons and 64cc heads will be 10.3:1 SCR.
According to John Erb, chief engineer for Keith Black Pistons, widening the squish to lower static compression ratio will cause the motor to detonate worse than if you had left the squish alone and used the higher static compression ratio.

Have the machine shop check the main bearing bore alignment and correct as necessary, then cut the block for zero deck according to the height of your stack of parts. Then use a 0.040" gasket and hope for the best. You already know how to fix it right, change the pistons. Do what you think is best.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:43 PM
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Thanks for the welcome. 69 widetrack, I picked the name malamute in honor of my dog He's big, furry and leaves his hair everywhere but we like him.

I wonder why this kit is advertised as a 9.6 CR with 64 cc heads from Eagle?

I suppose that I could alter my head choice since the kit is already balanced and new pistons would require re-balancing. My machinist seems to think that I won't have any issues and that quench is really only important for race engines. I'm new to this, just what I read and have researched. But, I don't want to do things twice.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:53 PM
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your machinist says????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
Thanks for the welcome. 69 widetrack, I picked the name malamute in honor of my dog He's big, furry and leaves his hair everywhere but we like him.

I wonder why this kit is advertised as a 9.6 CR with 64 cc heads from Eagle?

I suppose that I could alter my head choice since the kit is already balanced and new pistons would require re-balancing. My machinist seems to think that I won't have any issues and that quench is really only important for race engines. I'm new to this, just what I read and have researched. But, I don't want to do things twice.
good thing you have tech on this thread. I hope you consider everything he says.also consider checking the balance even with a balanced kit.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:00 PM
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Well Malamute the reason I asked is because I have a dog as well, we got it as a pup and where under the pretence that it was a Husky/Malamute cross with maybe German Shepard. Damn cute little puppy. The dog gets older and needs shots, take her to the Vet, long story short, turns out she's pure bread Grey Wolf. Who knew and it was to late, she was a part of the family. Have had her for 8 years and compared to my last dog, a Peek/Pom cross, (I know, big difference) this Wolf is the biggest suck of a pet I've ever had...even Goldfish.

Anyway, back to your 383...what Techinspector1 tells you, you can take to the bank. Read his other posts, I was hoping he would answer your thread. there are other members on this site as well that have a great deal of knowledge when it comes to what it takes to build an engine...and Tech is without a doubt very knowledgeable and won't steer you wrong.

Ray
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:24 AM
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I'm showing your c.r. as 9.70:1 with those pistons, +.030, 12 cc dish and other specs you listed.

What 351W related couldn't you find in your area?
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:33 AM
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Anytime a machine shop tells you what is "good enough for the street" alarms should go off ................
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:42 AM
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68NovaSS,
Did you calculate that 9.7 based on 0.025 deck and a 0.040 head gasket? This is what is advertised by Eagle.

I picked up a 69 351w c90e complete engine that I thought was good enough to be rebuilt. Torn it apart to find out that it was already .030 over and have some severe pitting that required 4 sleeves. Found a few other windsor's but everyone wanted too much money. I really wanted to run a roller cam and that limited me on the 351 unless I spent the $ for the roller conversion. So, like I said the 383 fit the budget.

I'm thinking that I will most likely just use 72 cc heads when it comes time as they will put my CR at a safe level and allow me to run an 0.040 quench. But, I don't 'know if the pistons really even provide any quench. But, if they were used in the stock 5.7 vortec why wouldn't it work for another street built engine? Thanks guys.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:52 AM
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you can easily build over 500 hp roller windsor using new parts including block,under 9k.True its a little cheaper than a chevy,but not much.You can trim those prices by finding used quality parts and/or using asian knock off parts.I believe in quality parts myself,but I understand having to compromise sometimes.

If you have a lot of experience assembling engines,then this is where you save the most.You need a very good machinist and the 2 of you working together can compromise all day.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
68NovaSS,
Did you calculate that 9.7 based on 0.025 deck and a 0.040 head gasket? This is what is advertised by Eagle.
I used specs 4.030, 3.75, .025, .040, 64 cc heads and 12 cc dish. Online calculators might be the culprit, there are a bunch out there, I even found one that didn't consider compression height. Here's one of many:

Interactive JavaScript to Calculate Engine's Compression Ratio (CR).

The one I use computes 9.70:1. With 76 cc heads I get 8.67:1. Google it and try a couple of different ones.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:49 PM
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500hp is definitely not a goal of mine for this truck nor do I have $9k to spend on a motor....thats the budget for the whole truck! I've got $1500 in the mustang II ifs. Hoping for $4k for the drivetrain and the rest in the body. All work will be done by me for the most part.

Anyways, the way I see it I have two options and I'm asking for advice because I really don't know what would be the best.

1. Build the eagle stroker (balanced with card) bottom end with the current round dished pistons. Leave the block at its 0.025 deck and use a thin head gasket...say something like the stock l31 0.028 and run some 72 cc heads (sportsman II, found a lightly used set for $600) Make sure they check out good. This puts me exactly at 9.24 CR just like a stock l31 with an identical quench and style piston.

2. Buy new 18cc dished KB pistons that are inverted dome. Sell my 12cc pistons and re-balance the rotating assembly. Zero deck the block and use a 0.040 thick gasket and 64cc vortec heads. 9.6-9.7 CR.

Obviously option 2 would be the greatest performance and $ but how much more power are we talking?

Also my cam (Thinking LT4 Hotcam) will bleed off some compression. 218-228 @0.050 112 LS and IVC 64.5

I don't want to spin the motor past 5500 rpm.Thanks guys!!
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68NovaSS View Post
I'm showing your c.r. as 9.70:1 with those pistons, +.030, 12 cc dish and other specs you listed.
.7854 x 4.03 x 4.03 x 3.75 x 16.387 = 783.8 cc's in the cylinder
64cc's in the chambers
12cc's in the pistons
.7854 x 4.03 x 4.03 x 0.025 x 16.387 = 5.2 cc's in the piston deck height
estimate the head gasket at 8cc's

783.8 + 64 + 12 + 5.2 + 8 = 873cc's
Subtract cylinder cc's and find 89.2cc's
Divide 873 by 89.2 and find 9.78:1 static compression ratio.

You are correct Nova, shame on me for taking the word of a posted result from KB website, rather than figuring it myself in the first place. Apologies to the OP.

Here's where I got the erroneous info....
http://www.kb-silvolite.com/kb_car/p...etails&P_id=94

Last edited by techinspector1; 04-15-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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