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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
No, they won't. With a 3.08 gear, you'd want to run a nearly stock cam.

I'm confused. If you want more driveability, why are you going with more cam? Sounds to me like you should install a bone-stock 305 with the 3.08 gears.

Please state exactly what you don't like about your present combo. I have followed your build from day one.
Hi Tech, great to hear from you.

I'd like to go with less cam. I'm considering installing the SUM-1785 cam vs the current Isky 201278.

The problem is it's just setup too much on the drag car side. Hopping on the freeway to go to a car show is really a chore. I'm just wanting it to be more street friendly, but still have a little hotrod edge to it.

I'm basically wanting to enjoy it more by driving it around the streets rather than it being geared towards the race car / track side. When I initially set out to build this car, I was thinking I wanted more track than street. Big cam, big stall, gears, etc. 5-6 years later, I'm really just wanting something that's more drivable, but will have that get up and go if I want to play. That and I Love the choppy idle sound.

I Love the car, but just want it to be less obnoxious to just drive.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by V8 Super Beetle View Post
Hi Tech, great to hear from you.

I'd like to go with less cam. I'm considering installing the SUM-1785 cam vs the current Isky 201278.

The problem is it's just setup too much on the drag car side. Hopping on the freeway to go to a car show is really a chore. I'm just wanting it to be more street friendly, but still have a little hotrod edge to it.

I'm basically wanting to enjoy it more by driving it around the streets rather than it being geared towards the race car / track side. When I initially set out to build this car, I was thinking I wanted more track than street. Big cam, big stall, gears, etc. 5-6 years later, I'm really just wanting something that's more drivable, but will have that get up and go if I want to play. That and I Love the choppy idle sound.

I Love the car, but just want it to be less obnoxious to just drive.
That cam is used as a cheap hotrod cam for a lot of mild 350's. It works great with just headers and a mild stall but will do much better in your more complete build. There are plenty of videos on youtube of people that have used that cam- I suggest you check them out and talk to the owners to get their 2 cents. I like it as a low buck cam, but other people may have more to say about it.

274h06 - YouTube


FWIW the e1785pm and 274h06 are the same cam- a few other places rebox it as their own as well.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 11:27 AM
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OK, now I get it. You want your cake and eat it too.
Only way I know of to have a docile daily driver that turns into a street beast when you wood it is with a turbo/blower. One of my heroes on this board is Bentwings. He has a very streetable build that goes anywhere, anytime, but will rip the tires off when he mats the loud pedal. Maybe he'll see this thread and chime in.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
That cam is used as a cheap hotrod cam for a lot of mild 350's. It works great with just headers and a mild stall but will do much better in your more complete build. There are plenty of videos on youtube of people that have used that cam- I suggest you check them out and talk to the owners to get their 2 cents. I like it as a low buck cam, but other people may have more to say about it.

274h06 - YouTube

crane 274h06 elgin e1785pm cam - YouTube

FWIW the e1785pm and 274h06 are the same cam- a few other places rebox it as their own as well.
Thanks, AP72! Great info.


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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
OK, now I get it. You want your cake and eat it too.
Only way I know of to have a docile daily driver that turns into a street beast when you wood it is with a turbo/blower. One of my heroes on this board is Bentwings. He has a very streetable build that goes anywhere, anytime, but will rip the tires off when he mats the loud pedal. Maybe he'll see this thread and chime in.
Don't we all? Although, that's something I might consider in the future. I've got the hole in the hood and scoop ready to go.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
That cam is used as a cheap hotrod cam for a lot of mild 350's. It works great with just headers and a mild stall but will do much better in your more complete build. There are plenty of videos on youtube of people that have used that cam- I suggest you check them out and talk to the owners to get their 2 cents. I like it as a low buck cam, but other people may have more to say about it.

274h06 - YouTube

crane 274h06 elgin e1785pm cam - YouTube

FWIW the e1785pm and 274h06 are the same cam- a few other places rebox it as their own as well.

Sounds good. Very similar to how mine sounds now. Just what I'm looking for. I've since extended the exhaust on mine all the way back out of the car with chrome tips. Made a hug difference in loudness and is much more enjoyable without the cab drone noise.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 12:59 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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LOL, well, its slightly simmilar but its not going to have that pronounced surge you have right now. There's definitely a difference, no mistake about that.

nice car BTW! I'm not a fan of aluminum dashs (I like boring stock ones) but the body is very slick.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:59 PM
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 02:11 PM
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Sweet ride looks cool.

Have you tried giving it a little less gear with the cam you have. Since your going to change the gears anyway.

Four speed auto trans would solve alot of your issues. And let you keep the cam that works. No room in the tunnel?

The summit cam: one search onthe internet for wiped summit cams and they dont look as cheap. That being said i do see ppl running them. But i think the advertised duration here is trying to help you out. 274 By letting you know its going to drive like a big cam sep it will fall on its face just when the other cam was setting you back in your seat. Still bad idle still will need gears. You would be better with a longer duration and wider lobe center. Idle would smooth out and off idle power would come back so gears could be changed to a much lower set. I have seen a cam with these specs before and it was the wild racing cam for stock heads back in the day. Sounded good but boring power. Often sold as 3/4 race cam to ppl that dont know any better.

I would call comp and have them run the numbers on a nice roller for the car. With smooth idle and good power. You will be on the phone for an hour but will be worth it. A cam considered strong for efi car my be the best bet.

Either you will make power with crazy idle or smooth and less power. Not much way to make a cam sound big and still be streetable.

Hyd flat tappet Have you looked at the Comp thumpr cams they will still need some gear and idle is bad but may be more of what will work with your ride. They also are fast not just poorly timed. But many ppl think they are crap. So who knows. Llight car and gears it will be right where its made to be with 3.73-3.08
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
But i think the advertised duration here is trying to help you out. 274 By letting you know its going to drive like a big cam sep it will fall on its face just when the other cam was setting you back in your seat. Still bad idle still will need gears. You would be better with a longer duration and wider lobe center. Idle would smooth out and off idle power would come back so gears could be changed to a much lower set. I have seen a cam with these specs before and it was the wild racing cam for stock heads back in the day.
I agree a roller is better, but adv. duration tells you absolutely nothing, especially on cams like these. Also you state it will drive like a big cam but will fall flat? meaning you have no idea what it'll do? Then go on to suggest a bigger cam but with a wider LSA- to help make it more driveable?

Truth be told this cam will idle just like in the videos and produce a torque peak right around 4,000 rpm, peak power on a 383 will probably come in at about 5300rpm-ish. This cam is probably about the best "cheap cam" for mid range torque and a rough idle.

218 is NOT a big cam- not by any means.

I would not be surprised at all is this combo produced over 450ftlb on your 383 but only about 400hp peak(flywheel)- the torque is going to kick in hard right after your stall locks in.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
I agree a roller is better, but adv. duration tells you absolutely nothing, especially on cams like these. Also you state it will drive like a big cam but will fall flat? meaning you have no idea what it'll do? Then go on to suggest a bigger cam but with a wider LSA- to help make it more driveable?

Truth be told this cam will idle just like in the videos and produce a torque peak right around 4,000 rpm, peak power on a 383 will probably come in at about 5300rpm-ish. This cam is probably about the best "cheap cam" for mid range torque and a rough idle.

218 is NOT a big cam- not by any means.

I would not be surprised at all is this combo produced over 450ftlb on your 383 but only about 400hp peak(flywheel)- the torque is going to kick in hard right after your stall locks in.
Properly chosen roller can help alot in this case. But i usally suggest flat tappets.

The cam i herd on the video had a very clear lope as it went off idle. That will happen in gear and cause the problem he is trying to solve. Smooth low rpm will only come from less overlap. At 106 lobe center its going to be aLmost as ruff as what he has just more violent when it bumps in gear with more low rpm torque. Current cam is tight lobe center as well. Its going to have many of the same idle and more importantly off idle problems. Maybe some one can explain lobe center a little better its not only about duration. Longer duration with a 110 lobe center could run very smooth and still run off good numbers at the track. i am not making suggestions as this could be a tuff one to get right. Rather than throw out WAG's.

FYI i love big cams i would keep it and change out the trans to work with the gears. I am not a trans guy but i think the th700r4 can have 1.1 or better final ratio and support the correct gears. The ratios can be changed to allow it to run the 1/4 in the first three and drop low rpm in fourth. But may still bump and chunk at 55 mph if you go to far. You can also get a lock up clutch that can help with the change to high at street legal speeds.

Thats my 2 cents. Best of both worlds always cost the most. Lol its the hotrod equation. Mo money...
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Properly chosen roller can help alot in this case. But i usally suggest flat tappets.

The cam i herd on the video had a very clear lope as it went off idle. That will happen in gear and cause the problem he is trying to solve. Smooth low rpm will only come from less overlap. At 106 lobe center its going to be aLmost as ruff as what he has just more violent when it bumps in gear with more low rpm torque. Current cam is tight lobe center as well. Its going to have many of the same idle and more importantly off idle problems. Maybe some one can explain lobe center a little better its not only about duration. Longer duration with a 110 lobe center could run very smooth and still run off good numbers at the track. i am not making suggestions as this could be a tuff one to get right. Rather than throw out WAG's.

FYI i love big cams i would keep it and change out the trans to work with the gears. I am not a trans guy but i think the th700r4 can have 1.1 or better final ratio and support the correct gears. The ratios can be changed to allow it to run the 1/4 in the first three and drop low rpm in fourth. But may still bump and chunk at 55 mph if you go to far. You can also get a lock up clutch that can help with the change to high at street legal speeds.

Thats my 2 cents. Best of both worlds always cost the most. Lol its the hotrod equation. Mo money...
you really don't understand how duration and LSA work do you?

the 234/234 cam he currently uses has 22 of overlap. The 218/218 cam he is considering has 6 that difference is huge. when it comes to street manners that's one of the most important numbers. FWIW the voodoo 268 cam- a very often used hot street cam has 10 degrees of overlap. This cam is actually milder than a VooDoo 268.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:15 PM
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I would change the cam to a summit cam #1103 if you want to use a stock 2100 stall 12" converter and
drop the gears down.
214-224-.442-.465 112 LSA good idle, good fuel mileage, good cruise, good power right from idle to 5500 rpm.

You will find this much more civil in daily driving yest makes very good power when you rug it.
Fine with a stock converter. 3.08 to 3.55 gears are fine in your light car.
The car is light weight . Its still going to GLH.

I had this cam in my 350 vortec motor with 3.42's. Its a nice cam that works well.
How you design your exhaust system makes a big difference in how you enjoy driving the car.
I spent quite a bit of time doing mine. The mufflers are custom home hand built. The overall result was very good.
makes power yet doesn't drone or get old.

I agree with the other poster. Try just reducing the gear ratio, first. Your car is very light.
Then if you decide you also want a tamer more civil camshaft try a similar Isky cam #201264/271-12 "264/270 Mega Hyd"
Isky cams and lifters are high quality. This cam will still make a ton of power and torque in your V8 bug.
And cruise a lot more civil. 264/270 214-221@.050" .450"-.465" 112LSA

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 10-25-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:33 PM
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where are the specs for the "big" cam? and I dont like hydraulics cams but sounds like a small hydraulic roller would be perfect for you. 225 duration at 50 is very mild,480 to 510 lift.move the icl and lda around for sound and rpm range wanted
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2012, 09:35 PM
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Did you ever get a track time slip on this car?
What is the rear tire diameter?

When you drive on the hiway, what speed do you drive at?
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:00 PM
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If you took it to a drag strip,include MPH as that is more important than E.T.
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