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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2010, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by my87Z
to be honest with you there must have been something wrong with your combination, cause as long as the heads could keep up with the motor this should have made 500+hp. i've got a 385 stroker with less cam (240/250 @ 050 and .555"int/ .521"exh) and i'm making just a touch over 500, but i have a really good set of DART iron heads with work done to them as well, without all the work i had done to them there is no way i would have hit 500hp, maybe 475hp
you are right. i had the bigger is better syndrome. my camshaft was alittle to big for my combo.the heads quit having good flow numbers around .475 in. of lift. im putting together another 406 with a set of 221 brodix heads and a good solid roller cam.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2010, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by my87Z
bigger is not the key remember, it's acutally as small as you can get them but still maintain as much flow as possible, remember you want both air flow and velocity at lower lifts, on a 350 used on the street there is no real need for any bigger than about 170-180cc intake runner, once you go over that you will start to sacrifice low end for high end, and you dont want this on the street. i'm not a fan of sportsman heads, they used to be a staple in the racing community but when you actually had them tested they didn't do so well, the newer ones are a little better but i just stay away from them all together. a great head for you would be the RHS 170 pro torker, or if you ended up using a cam with over 230 degrees @ .050 i would say look into their 180 pro action heads

here look at these, they are vortec style heads but yet you can use the regular bolt patten intake on them, with these you wouldn't have any problem making 400-415hp with the right cam. and you can't beat the price either.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/R...fo/RHS12410K1/

or look at these, with a little more cam and these heads you could easily work into about 440-460hp

http://www.competitionproducts.com/R...fo/RHS12317K1/

either of these heads on the engine you want to build will blow those 305 heads away, we're talking about an easy 60-100hp from just using these heads of the 305 ones you have and that is on the belief that they actually flow ok
heck yeah, im wanting serious power, when i do get some heads like 215's anything bigger, im bumpin up to the comp mag 305 525"/525" 248/248@.50, until then the cutlass is a 3800lb car what carb do i run with the combo i have rite now, i have a 3310c 750cfm vac sec rite now..but i will look @ these sites 4 heads
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2010, 07:53 AM
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i would strongly suggest that you not go with that aggressive of a hyd flat tappet cam, i wouldn't go with the comp 292 cam as i believe that it is too aggressive for hyd flat tappet lifters. when you end up going this route you need to look into solid flat tappet cam or a solid roller cam. i wrote in another post where you mentioned the 292 cam to someone looking for a cam with 260 degrees @ .050 the difference between the two lifters and why you want to run a solid lifter if you plan on turning the motor past 6000rpm. a solid cam is not that intimidating once you understand them. you can run much higher rpms with them due to the lifter design. with a solid cam all you have to do is set the valve lash and maintain it. here is an example: my sollid flat tappet cam suggests a .024" valve lash, so what you do when putting the rockers and pushrods in is you take feeler gauges and put them in between the rocker arm end and the valve spring/ valve end (in my case i use a .020" feeler gauge plus a .004" feeler gauge to get the .024" clearance) then as you are tightening down the rocker arms like with all cams you turn the push rod with your fingers while tightening the rockers, once you get to the point where you really can't turn the pushrods with your fingers anymore then you give the rocker nut another 1/2 turn then tighen the set screw. then pull out the feeler gauges and now you have your valve lash set. you then check your valve lash after break in, you will pobably have to adjust it again, and then check it again after a couple of hundred miles to make sure it is still set to where you need it. after that you only need to check it about every 6 months. it's not that hard and is the only way to go when turning high rpms or even if you plan on beating on the motor.

on a 350 there is hardly ever a need to run heads with 210cc intake runners unless you plan on turning the motor past 7000rpm. and if you plan on doing that then you will end up needing to go all forged internals. i can tell that you have the "bigger is better" syndrome, and i've been trying to explain to you that this is wrong the idea with induction is to go as small as possible but still maintain the air flow need to make the power you are looking for, remember this is how velocity is made. with all you have mentioned the largest runner head you need is 180cc but if you must i could see going with up to a 190cc runner with the thoughts of rebuilding latter for more power and not having to buy another set of heads. on a well built 350 a 190cc runner will hold up to an easy 6500rpm and as long as they are good heads they will produce up to and possibley beyond 500hp as long as the motor is well researched and planned out. considering the 3310 carb you have is a vacuum secondary carb you will be fine with what you are trying to do, once you do end up doing the high rpm route then you might want to look for a manual seconadary double pumper carb like hollley's 4779 750cfm DP
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2010, 08:09 AM
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Since you run your car on the street, and don't have much money here's the cheapest way I can figure for you to make decent power.

1) throw away those heads, I know you think they're amazing because they have a large port but with the small valves the port is a hinderance, not an advantage, and they're really not worth getting larger valves installed.

2) get some double hump heads, clean up the bowls, If you're running flat tops your CR will be around 10:1.

3) run a E-1091-P cam from Elgin with face oiling lifters and a 3,000 stall.

4) run a used RPM intake with a 1" open spacer.


Its the cheapest way to get some power under your hood that is still driveable. Its basically the same engine that you could have built in 1980, with no hot new tech, but it works.

If you can splurge on new heads then get them, but the double hump heads are capable of 400hp with ease. Vortecs are nice too, but they require a lot of additional parts that drives the cost up.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Since you run your car on the street, and don't have much money here's the cheapest way I can figure for you to make decent power.

1) throw away those heads, I know you think they're amazing because they have a large port but with the small valves the port is a hinderance, not an advantage, and they're really not worth getting larger valves installed.

2) get some double hump heads, clean up the bowls, If you're running flat tops your CR will be around 10:1.

3) run a E-1091-P cam from Elgin with face oiling lifters and a 3,000 stall.

4) run a used RPM intake with a 1" open spacer.


Its the cheapest way to get some power under your hood that is still driveable. Its basically the same engine that you could have built in 1980, with no hot new tech, but it works.

If you can splurge on new heads then get them, but the double hump heads are capable of 400hp with ease. Vortecs are nice too, but they require a lot of additional parts that drives the cost up.
this car will be raced only, wont never see the street unless i take it rite down the road to the fire dept while they are have there meeting, and lite the tires up 4 them! i have some "461" double humps with the 1.94's, i dont know anything about them, the guy i bought them from, he said bolt them on they are currently on a lil 350 with flat tops with a 288^ 214@.50 442"/442"!
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2010, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
i would strongly suggest that you not go with that aggressive of a hyd flat tappet cam, i wouldn't go with the comp 292 cam as i believe that it is too aggressive for hyd flat tappet lifters. when you end up going this route you need to look into solid flat tappet cam or a solid roller cam. i wrote in another post where you mentioned the 292 cam to someone looking for a cam with 260 degrees @ .050 the difference between the two lifters and why you want to run a solid lifter if you plan on turning the motor past 6000rpm. a solid cam is not that intimidating once you understand them. you can run much higher rpms with them due to the lifter design. with a solid cam all you have to do is set the valve lash and maintain it. here is an example: my sollid flat tappet cam suggests a .024" valve lash, so what you do when putting the rockers and pushrods in is you take feeler gauges and put them in between the rocker arm end and the valve spring/ valve end (in my case i use a .020" feeler gauge plus a .004" feeler gauge to get the .024" clearance) then as you are tightening down the rocker arms like with all cams you turn the push rod with your fingers while tightening the rockers, once you get to the point where you really can't turn the pushrods with your fingers anymore then you give the rocker nut another 1/2 turn then tighen the set screw. then pull out the feeler gauges and now you have your valve lash set. you then check your valve lash after break in, you will pobably have to adjust it again, and then check it again after a couple of hundred miles to make sure it is still set to where you need it. after that you only need to check it about every 6 months. it's not that hard and is the only way to go when turning high rpms or even if you plan on beating on the motor.

on a 350 there is hardly ever a need to run heads with 210cc intake runners unless you plan on turning the motor past 7000rpm. and if you plan on doing that then you will end up needing to go all forged internals. i can tell that you have the "bigger is better" syndrome, and i've been trying to explain to you that this is wrong the idea with induction is to go as small as possible but still maintain the air flow need to make the power you are looking for, remember this is how velocity is made. with all you have mentioned the largest runner head you need is 180cc but if you must i could see going with up to a 190cc runner with the thoughts of rebuilding latter for more power and not having to buy another set of heads. on a well built 350 a 190cc runner will hold up to an easy 6500rpm and as long as they are good heads they will produce up to and possibley beyond 500hp as long as the motor is well researched and planned out. considering the 3310 carb you have is a vacuum secondary carb you will be fine with what you are trying to do, once you do end up doing the high rpm route then you might want to look for a manual seconadary double pumper carb like hollley's 4779 750cfm DP
yeah i just fig that with a 13-1 it could use a large heads, i mean idk but if there is comp like that, that means there is alot of air going in and out of that motor? the double pumpers are cool too, i fig with a heavy 3800lb car the vac sec wouldnt bog it down?? but ill get a better cam later on aswell as heads..
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2010, 08:13 AM
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those 461 double humps would be a far better fit, a motor that has higher compression will not pull more air in, the amouont of air a motor is capable of pulling is dependet on how many cubic inches there is, you could have a motor that is 13:1 but only runs up to 6000rpm and would only need a 180cc runner heads to make it run efficently. i've already explained this but when you put huge runner heads on a engine that doesn't need it then the bottom end of the rpm band suffers, it wont make the power you want it too until the rpms are high enough to cause the heads to not only pull in good air but also make velocity with the air flow.

those 461 heads are old technology but if you can't get a hold of some vortecs or a good set of aftermarket heads then they will do, and they take well to some machine work. in my opinion if you dont have the funds to build a 13:1 race motor right ($6000-8000 atleast!) then there is no point in doing it. IMHO putting a set of production heads on a motor that you want to run 13:1 is stupid, and any 13:1 sbc that i would even consider building would be all forged, with a nasty solid roller cam to put the rpms/ lift up high, such as in a 350 something like 260+ @ .050 with about .625+" lift and a set of heads capable of putting out at least 280cfm @ .600", you're talking turning this motor up past 7000 rpm with a 850+cfm carb single plane intake in a car with 4.56+ gears, 4500 stall and a T-brake and some nice slicks, i would est this to be about 585-615hp seriously pushing the limit of a production block. and would cost evey penny of 7000-8000 dollars for just the engine. if i didnt have the money for this then i would look at trying to build a motor that would fit my budget and still build it right and not half arsed
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2010, 11:30 PM
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Hog heads!

OK, back away, put down the HotRod magazines and pick up a math book!
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
those 461 double humps would be a far better fit, a motor that has higher compression will not pull more air in, the amouont of air a motor is capable of pulling is dependet on how many cubic inches there is, you could have a motor that is 13:1 but only runs up to 6000rpm and would only need a 180cc runner heads to make it run efficently. i've already explained this but when you put huge runner heads on a engine that doesn't need it then the bottom end of the rpm band suffers, it wont make the power you want it too until the rpms are high enough to cause the heads to not only pull in good air but also make velocity with the air flow.

those 461 heads are old technology but if you can't get a hold of some vortecs or a good set of aftermarket heads then they will do, and they take well to some machine work. in my opinion if you dont have the funds to build a 13:1 race motor right ($6000-8000 atleast!) then there is no point in doing it. IMHO putting a set of production heads on a motor that you want to run 13:1 is stupid, and any 13:1 sbc that i would even consider building would be all forged, with a nasty solid roller cam to put the rpms/ lift up high, such as in a 350 something like 260+ @ .050 with about .625+" lift and a set of heads capable of putting out at least 280cfm @ .600", you're talking turning this motor up past 7000 rpm with a 850+cfm carb single plane intake in a car with 4.56+ gears, 4500 stall and a T-brake and some nice slicks, i would est this to be about 585-615hp seriously pushing the limit of a production block. and would cost evey penny of 7000-8000 dollars for just the engine. if i didnt have the money for this then i would look at trying to build a motor that would fit my budget and still build it right and not half arsed
yeah, the 355 has all forged internals, the short block is no prb, the heads i just have to save 4, yeah but your rite, im just going to save save save!
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2010, 02:27 PM
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that's the only way to do it, i just got my motor done and in my car less than a year ago. and now i have already started two more projects. I have a 489ci old drag motor that i have torn down and i'm just starting to rebuild to possibley put into a 71-72' chevelle, plus i have an old parts camaro that has a 305 4 barrel carb that i have a set of 4416 heads that just got back from the machine shop where i had larger valves put in them and had them opened and cleaned up just a little bit, i'm gonna use the stock crank, i have a set of PM 5.7 rods, i need to get a set of pistons, i have an intake and a 600cfm edelbrock carb to put on it. i'm really just redoing the camaro do get about 300hp/330tq out of the 305 so i can sell it to my brother in law, but the chevelle (which is more on the 5yr plan) will stay mine.

this stuff takes a ton of money to build and then another ton of money to keep running but once you have the bug there is no getting rid of it.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:24 AM
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Yes sir, let me tell ya, iv got a 79' z/28 with a 60 over 350, with flat tops and a comp mag 480" with 280@.50, with a set of 882's milled 125 thousands, and all new springs, valves 1.94's, harland sharp roller rockers @1.5, cast crank wearing the x-rods, with 0 deck hight, a performer eps intake, feeding it is a 1850 600 holley with all the choke stuff gone, firen it is the accel coil on a good ole HEI... the z has 3:73 gears, a turbo 350 good shift kit with a 2000-2500 stall... i love this ride!!
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:43 AM
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heres a cam im wondering bout comp mag cca-12-225-4 260/260@.50 555"/555" (it stats mechanical flat tappet) ??? some opinions please...
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Old 05-02-2010, 01:01 PM
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about one of your above post you wrote that you cam was .480 lift with 280@ .050, this is wrong that would be your advertised duration, on a cam like this i would expect the duration @.050 to be around 226, but you probably just had a "brain fart"

about your other post:
i personaly dont like comp cams, i kinda look at them as the cams that Joe Shmo picks, if where to go with an off the shelf cam it would probably be from one of these companies: Howards, Isky, and possibly Crower. as far the cam you have picked out, what i could recomend to you really all depends on what motor it's going into, the specs for the motor, the gears in the car, what the car will be used for and certainly what heads will be used with the motor. i know you mentioned alot on here about what you want to do but you have doing some flip-flopping as we have explained things to you so i really dont know exaclty what your thoughts are.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:20 AM
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yeah the 600 cfm is way to small i run a holley 670 cfm dp. on my 358 making around 420ish if i went any more i would have to go 750+. you need tyo read up on your hp ratings. I believe a 600 is like 250-350. You will also need more pressure so you need to atleast go holley red if not more.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85camaroZ28
yeah the 600 cfm is way to small i run a holley 670 cfm dp. on my 358 making around 420ish if i went any more i would have to go 750+. you need tyo read up on your hp ratings. I believe a 600 is like 250-350. You will also need more pressure so you need to atleast go holley red if not more.

Holley doesnt make a 670 double pumper, the carb you have/are talking about is the 670cfm street avenger, this is a vacuum secondary carb and is not a double pumper it is a dual feed carb, but it does not have two accelorator pumps in it, only one. Holley has never made a double pumper vacuum secondary carb they are all manual secondary carbs.

and those horsepower ratings that holley has put on there street avenger carbs are for engine illiterate people. the amount of horsepower you want to run doesn't have anywhere near as much to do with what carb you should use as cubic inches of the motor and the RPM the engine turn. in his case he has a 360ci that with the 280H cam will turn about 6000rpm, so i would say that a decent 600 or 650 will work just fine.

now adversely the cubic inches a motor has and the amount of RPM it will run does have a direct effect on how much horsepower it will make.
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