383 sbc combo - feedback please... - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2007, 11:17 AM
Big Mouse's Avatar
Stroked Z28
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Escaping the rat race...
Posts: 230
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
383 sbc combo - feedback please...

I picked up my 383 short block today. This is a 3600 lb STREET car shooting for 385 or so HP. This car will occasionally see 6500 RPM's when nobody is looking... Can I please get some feedback on my top end (nothing purchased yet):

Dart Iron Eagle Platinum Heads (64 cc / 215 intake runner - 10.3:1 or so CR)
Victor Jr Intake
Holley 750 CFM
Roller rockers (1.6 ratio)
1 7/8 headers into 3" collector into 2.5 exhaust

These things will NOT change:
cam LSA 112*, 218* intake / 226 exhaust at 0.050" (278*/284 advertised)461/.468" lift --- the cam looks wimpy, but it has a steep ramp that helps...
3.73:1 gears behind my TKO 600

Thanks!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2007, 12:09 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mouse
I picked up my 383 short block today. This is a 3600 lb STREET car shooting for 385 or so HP. This car will occasionally see 6500 RPM's when nobody is looking... Can I please get some feedback on my top end (nothing purchased yet):

Dart Iron Eagle Platinum Heads (64 cc / 215 intake runner - 10.3:1 or so CR)
Victor Jr Intake
Holley 750 CFM
Roller rockers (1.6 ratio)
1 7/8 headers into 3" collector into 2.5 exhaust

These things will NOT change:
cam LSA 112*, 218* intake / 226 exhaust at 0.050" (278*/284 advertised)461/.468" lift --- the cam looks wimpy, but it has a steep ramp that helps...
3.73:1 gears behind my TKO 600

Thanks!

You say street/fun car not race car.

I recommend you get a copy of "Hot Rod (magazine) Engines" issue Fall 2006, a special issue on the newstands NOW until end of February. A special HotRod do-it-yourself-series magazine.

On page 20 is a story "500 hp For Cheap". A Joe Sherman built pump gas 383 with single plane intake, RHS IRON heads. This might be more radical than you want though.
******************************
If you want something more street livable, I suggest your taking some of the money and maybe up the cam....... use EngineQuest Vortec iron heads that flow 230/160 @ .500 lift, Edelbrock dual plane Air Gap intake, and step up the cam to about a 230* single pattern cam on a 108 LSA with as much lift as you can find, even 1.6 rocker arms, and get into the .550 lift area. Here's an

example=

Popular Hot Rodding magazine did a Steve Dulcich buildup called "Budget Sledgehammer" on an iron head, dual plane intake, 350 Vortec that did 447 hp for $ 3500. It appears RIGHT NOW on the stands as an attachment to their current issue in plastic wrap.

This identical set up with the same cam on a 383 will make gut-busting 400 lbft torque at 2500 rpm with peak of 480, and with hp in the high 480+ range, run power brakes, and put a smile on your face that won't wipe off for months. That is what I would do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2007, 12:12 PM
firestone's Avatar
http://teamrfc.gospelcom.net
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fenton MI
Age: 32
Posts: 1,743
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
The heads are too big. In order to have a motor that performs well, the parts need to be matched to the same powerband. Since you have choosen that cam, it would be best to match the rest of the parts to where that cam will make its best power. As a comparason, the comp xe262h is 218 224 @.050 .462 .469 lift 110 lsa is almost identical to yours and has a recommended powerband of 1300-5600 RPM. In order to get a head to match this range well, you will probably want an intake runner around 170-180cc. From here there are a couple of heads I would consider. The platinum dart heads are nice, but they are expensive, and I think you would get similar performance out of a set of Vortec heads. The reason for this is the lift of your cam. With 1.6 rockers, your cam will have .491 .498 lift. At and below .500 lift, the Vortec heads perform very well, to the point that they probably outflow the darts below ~.400 lift. The main drawback to the Vortecs is that they are a thinner casting than the darts. If they are severly heated up, they will crack easier. On the other hand, I had a set of them on a 355 that was overheated regularly; they were sonic tested and showed no cracks. Also, the victor Jr intake is designed for a much higher RPM range also (3500-8000). I would use the performer RPM (1500-6500). I had that intake on my motor and it ran very well. As far as headers go, I think 1 7/8" is a little big. I had 1 5/8" and liked them a lot. Below are a couple of prices and a dyno of a motor similar to yours.

Platinum heads 200cc. I could not find 180's I dont know if they make them in that size. $1,040.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...56811_-1_10187

This is a set of the vortec heads upgraded to handle .525 lift. It looks like they are only $340 a set. That is cheaper than I thought. Keep in mind that you will need a vortec intake and self aligning rocker arms.
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3539...ng-Upgrade.htm

Here is a dyno of a 355 that would be very similar to your 383 if you used the vortec heads.

355
9.4:1 compression
Vortec heads
xe262h with 1.6 rockers
performer RPM air gap intake

422 hp @ 5600 RPM
451 ft lbs @ 4200 RPM

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ec/index1.html

I think can get an idea of the power these heads can make. Also, this was a 355 and you are using a 383. In a heavy car, you need torque, and I think you would probably be around 475-500 ft lbs in a 383.


Adam
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2007, 12:15 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
EngineQuest Vortec iron heads are aftermarket with thicker decks and significantly better flow than the factory Vortecs.
And seveal hundred dollars cheaper than the heads you are looking at.


edited:

Lots of people on this site "DIS" magazine articles and writers,

but Joe Sherman and Steve Dulcich are top engine builders in the USA and two of the nicest guys you'd ever talk to. I trust them and I'd follow their examples.

Last edited by xntrik; 01-15-2007 at 12:21 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2007, 12:34 PM
firestone's Avatar
http://teamrfc.gospelcom.net
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fenton MI
Age: 32
Posts: 1,743
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
As Xntrik said It looks like the Engine Quest heads are around $640 a set which is still way cheaper than the Darts. One other thing to think about is the compression 10.3:1 may be a tad high for pump gas with iron heads. Some people say they have done it and had no problems though.

Engine Quest heads
http://www.eqcylinderheads.com/performance.html#chevy1
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2007, 01:35 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by firestone
As Xntrik said It looks like the Engine Quest heads are around $640 a set which is still way cheaper than the Darts. One other thing to think about is the compression 10.3:1 may be a tad high for pump gas with iron heads. Some people say they have done it and had no problems though.

Engine Quest heads
http://www.eqcylinderheads.com/performance.html#chevy1

You might note that those heads were significantly milled to acheive that compression with the chosen pistons.

Like firestone, I would lean toward 9.5 if I were doing it. and expect a 2 % power loss. Worth it if I HAD to buy cheapo fuel.

What we always said was......."You can build a 420 hp engine with a fuel problem, or a 400 hp engine that will run on swill."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2007, 03:34 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Age: 67
Posts: 827
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 27
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
Another Vote

What Xntrik and Firestone are telling you is gospel. I agree that 215 cc ports on a motor with this mild of a cam is too much. And in particular I think the headers at 1 7/8 would be overkill. And frankly, I think the cam for a street driven 3500 lb car is pretty good, not too little at all. I personally wouldn't change the cam. Maybe just a wee bit, but not much, IMHO. You should get great torque from a good set of Vortecs, or spend a little more and step up to a set of AFR 195s or AFR 180s, even. Not a lot more money than the heads you were looking at, but they allow a tad more compression and would likely flow a bit better (but I haven't checked out the iron heads you're discussing, either, so I confess to being kind of ignorant there). Lastly, the Victor Jr intake is overkill. Particularly for the street sort of motor I'd expect you'd want for a 3500 lb car. The RPM AirGap will support over 450 HP from a 383 without too much trickery. If you're looking for a little more high end, and don't mind giving up some bottom end, then the Victor Jr might be a good choice. It'll surely produce more HP on the top end, but I'm afraid you'd see some real softening on the bottom end.

Pat
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2007, 11:36 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,226
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 601
Thanked 763 Times in 653 Posts
Upgraded GM Vortecs with 0.525" lift capacity can be bought for $680 COMPLETE. Doesn't $640 BARE seem a little pricey or is it just me?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2007, 02:16 AM
Race The Truck
 

Last journal entry: Son's Truck
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Arizona
Age: 58
Posts: 645
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I agree Vortec heads, see the Super Chevy build from stock to 500HP they go through all the diffrent performance parts on a build so you can see what work and what does not.

Craig
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2007, 06:46 AM
Big Mouse's Avatar
Stroked Z28
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Escaping the rat race...
Posts: 230
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok guys. This is exactly the feedback I was hoping for.

That combo was what my machinist suggested. He had me scared when he told me that without a big carb and the Victor Jr that I would lean-out on the top end

I believe my Q-Jet (Jet performance reman'd unit) is more than up to the task - especially with that cam. I also don't plan on hanging out above 6500 RPMS too often.

So, it looks like I'll tone down the intake runners, explore some other possible head options, and get an intake that will actually fit under my hood.

Thanks everyone. If I'm missing anyting, please let me know!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2007, 07:30 AM
hotrodf1's Avatar
Chasing dreams with a ball bat
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Evansville, IN
Age: 36
Posts: 545
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just my $.02

The headers at 1 7/8 would be too big for the powerband of the cam you've picked. Big headers make better power upstairs but really do hurt the low end, unless you are running lots of cubes (406, 427, 434 etc.)

I forget what mag did the comparo, but 1 5/8 headers were the "best" all around headers on their 355.

I have a 355 that has Iron Eagle 200cc heads that were ported a bit by the builder, 10.5 SCR, a 228/228 @ .050 cam. She idles real nice and lots o power on premo pump gas.

Gotta make sure your quench is set up right to make it work. .040" is about right. That will help you make sure that detonation tendencies are minimized.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2007, 12:50 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Upgraded GM Vortecs with 0.525" lift capacity can be bought for $680 COMPLETE. Doesn't $640 BARE seem a little pricey or is it just me?

GM Vortecs and EngineQuest Vortecs are NOT the same things. EQ are aftermarket rules-legal heads cast for the circle track IMCA cars.

The EQ 180 head flows 225/160 at .500 lift and keeps on gaining right up to .700. They will accept high lifts right out of the box, have screw in studs, etc. They are 4-500 cheaper than most aftermarket alum heads. Compared to AFR 180s = AFRs flow about 250/190 at .500 for much more $$. The EQ Vortecs even flow slightly better at very low lifts. 225+ will support at least 450 hp and maintain good torque down low for street driving.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2007, 12:54 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mouse

That combo was what my machinist suggested. He had me scared when he told me that without a big carb and the Victor Jr that I would lean-out on the top end


know!

If that is exactly what he said.......

then he is .... uh....... mistaken......


Word from somebody that has been around this since Chrysler invented the muscle cars....... "Just because someone can run a boring machine, or builds engines daily, doesn't mean that they know squat about picking combinations or tuning engines." X
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2007, 01:55 PM
johnsongrass1's Avatar
Race it, Don't rice it!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Columbia, Mo
Age: 37
Posts: 4,062
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Good point there



Dart have a 60/40 valve spacing and might shroud the intake with the 2.05 intake. If you use dart, Go with the 2.02 valve.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2007, 02:36 PM
firestone's Avatar
http://teamrfc.gospelcom.net
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fenton MI
Age: 32
Posts: 1,743
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I got to looking at the flow numbers on these heads, and it defanetly looks like those EQ vortec heads would perform well on a motor with a decient cam, but compared to some of the flow numbers I have seen for the GM vortec heads I dont know if they would perform as well in a low RPM street application where you have a cam with relatively low lift. I realize that there are many ways to effect flow numbers, but if you compare the numbers that CHP got for the GM vortec heads, it looks to me they may perform better in this application. What do you think?

EQ flow numbers:
http://www.eqcylinderheads.com/flow.html

GM Vortec Flow numbers from CHP
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te.../photo_14.html

This still does not address the cracking issue though. The only reason I bring this up is that I had a set of the GM vortec heads, and I loved them. I have no experience with the EQ heads, I just wondered what any of you thought about the information I found.

Thanks,
Adam
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Is The Ultimate Street/Strip SBC Combo? (Updated) V8Guy427 Engine 5 04-04-2014 11:06 AM
SBC valve spring & cam timing 383 jsteve068 Engine 2 07-04-2006 03:40 PM
SBC 383 re-build chefralph Engine 1 06-23-2006 12:11 AM
Forced Induction Style For 383 SBC?? HorsepowerGainGame Engine 2 08-23-2005 08:14 PM
.60 over 383 SBC Questions Mustangsaly Engine 8 06-28-2005 12:18 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.