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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:22 PM
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Buzzlol I really do like the olds 403 I just swapped one of those in for the 307 that was in there. Engine has minor problems and I don't think it'll last much longer. I have another 403 also as well as an olds 455 that I may or may not put it, depending if I can get it running on the engine stand. I have several cars that's why I have so many engines.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bfritch View Post
What I'm looking for is a good short block that includes the oil pan, dampener, and flex plate, and 1 piece RMS so I don't have to jack with a cam button. The ZZ383 shortblock is great but at $3903 there has to be a better value. Even the ZZ454 short block is less at $3855. The ATK 383 short block at about $2000 looks good but I'd like to have that with the pan, balancer and flex plate.
No idea where you're located, but there was a couple articles on a company named Demon, they're on the left coast. Cheap Big-Block Chevy Engine.

A while ago a member posted an article about a nice sounding deal from Coast High Performance, on a Chevrolet 406. These guys torque plate hone all their engines, I emailed them to confirm this.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:17 AM
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.. Yes, BFritch, where abouts are you located?

.. Both the links above go to basically infocommercials for parts and those engine rebuilders... but useful info and similar builds could be done with different parts at a lower price... that Demon company might be a source of a low priced SBC 400 shortblock... complete with warranty if that is important to you... they may also have the tin and other exterior parts lying around and supply them to you to clean up and paint yourself... biggest concern with SBC 400's is getting it built with pistons at or close to -0- deck for good quench... preferably without having to cut the block deck down... this means spec.'ing pistons with tallest compression height possible... hypereutectic cast pistons would be fine for this build... I suspect the 400 build in the 2nd link didn't really have good deck/quench and a properly built engine would easily far exceed their numbers...

.. One of the magazines did a build a while back with a Coast shortblock and it arrived with dish pistons and didn't perform impressively... before they did part 2 of that build, they discovered Coast offered the same shortblock with flat top pistons and bigger cam for the same price, so they used that one in part 2 with much better results... so, instead of buying something that needs half of it thrown away and replaced, spec. exactly what you want right off the bat... it usually costs little or even nothing more before the build is started...
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:58 AM
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I'm in Miami, FL. I've checked out coast high and while pricey it looks like they do offer some quality builds. Not sure if I need something that extravagant. Something that's set up just like the ZZ383 short block but at a better value and reputable as well is what I'm looking for.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:00 AM
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.. SBC 400 shortblock for about $1850?:

Chevy Crate Engines, Ford Crate Engines, Muscle Car Engines, Performance Engines, Motors

.. Or maybe somebody similar near you in Florida...
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
.One of the magazines did a build a while back with a Coast shortblock and it arrived with dish pistons and didn't perform impressively... before they did part 2 of that build, they discovered Coast offered the same shortblock with flat top pistons and bigger cam for the same price...
So who's fault is that?? If they can't order the right engine, it's on THEM, not the builder.

AFA "infocommercials", one link is to the company home page- like the page you linked to. The other to Demon's build up in CC is because I couldn't locate their home page, and the third was a link supplied by another member in another thread showing the results of a Coast build done w/the RIGHT parts.

When companies are featured by a magazine, or TV show, the idea is they'll get exposure. It's the way of free enterprise, nothing new about this. Nothing is misleading or incorrect as far as I know, other than the usual suspicions that people have of dyno figures from a magazine.

In THIS case, the OP wanted something w/better value than a ZZ383 shortblock. Coast has a decent deal on a forged piston 400 sbc, they torque plate hone the block, and I consider that a must-do.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:18 PM
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.. Yes, the lesson is don't just check the box and take what they offer, see if they'll do it the way you want it...

.. Actually, I have no fear of a backyard/garage engine builder that knows what he is doing...

.. Not criticizing the infomercial links, just want everyone to realize what they are reading, and not think they need everything being sold to have a good performing engine... for instance, my engines stay together and I've never bought an ARP bolt...

.. This is why the 'junkyard build' articles are popular, they sometimes show good performance boost for a couple hundred dollars added to a used 1970's slug engine in good condition... torque plate honing isn't necessary for a low RPM torque street engine... or the factory would do it...
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzLOL View Post
torque plate honing isn't necessary for a low RPM torque street engine... or the factory would do it...
We'll just have to disagree on this. There are a LOT of things the factories don't do. But that does not mean the things they don't do aren't things that will improve performance. It is all a matter of cost.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:03 PM
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We'll just have to disagree on this. There are a LOT of things the factories don't do. But that does not mean the things they don't do aren't things that will improve performance. It is all a matter of cost.
If, on cast iron blocks, they would add just 50 cents worth of nickel to the mix, the resulting product would be superior in every way to what we have had to deal with. But 50 cents times 2 million cars equals 1 million dollars. They will only use what is absolutely necessary to get the job done for 100,000 miles, to the end of the warranty period.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:12 PM
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.. That reminds me of the whistleblower exposing the Ford documents comparing the cost of fixing Pinto exploding gas tanks to the cost of killing people, and Ford deciding it was cheaper to keep on killing people... which caused juries to start awarding $100+million judgements instead of $1million judgements... unfortunately, it was GM/Chevy trucks that got hit with the first one of them... not Ford...
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:26 PM
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I remember being in a shop as a teen ager and throwing away the rubber lower rear shock bolt cover after replacing the shocks. I thought is was a stupid piece that was not required
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:26 PM
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Speaking of nickel. Aren't the newer GMPP iron blocks made with a higher amount of nickel compared to the old? That's something that's been in the back of my head and I think one of the reasons the vortec 350s show little to no wear in the cylinder bore even after 100,000+ miles. Correct me if I'm wrong. I like the idea of having an engine that last and that's not going to consume excessive amounts of oil after only 100,000 miles.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:40 PM
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.. The 1970's -010 small blocks showed the amount of nickel and tin in them under the timing cover... oil consumption prolly comes mostly from the rubber valve stem seals wearing out/deteriorating from age/heat... the moly coated/infused piston rings help reduce wear...
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2013, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfritch View Post
Speaking of nickel. Aren't the newer GMPP iron blocks made with a higher amount of nickel compared to the old? That's something that's been in the back of my head and I think one of the reasons the vortec 350s show little to no wear in the cylinder bore even after 100,000+ miles. Correct me if I'm wrong. I like the idea of having an engine that last and that's not going to consume excessive amounts of oil after only 100,000 miles.
Whether the new blocks are cast from a different alloy, I cannot say. In any event, the bore wear has diminished since the OMs went to EFI. The latest EFI systems should be even better in this regard. A better wearing alloy would be icing on the cake.

I don't buy in to the 010/020 tin/nickle (or vise versa) deal. I do know even I can tell the difference using a die grinder, between a Cadillac block and a SBC block- 010/020 or not. The Caddy is definitely a different alloy. On a spotlessly clean surface they even look different.

Here is a thread on the subject. There are others that defend the theory.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:09 AM
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I'll buy a 1996 to 2000 L31 any day of the week for a core.I expect to find some oval bores on the thrust side which is common in the SBC's.You shouldn't rest you decisions on a very old theory of the 010 blocks being anything special.
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