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Old 03-16-2013, 10:17 PM
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383 stoker need help

Have a nice 383 stroker and my initial timing is sitting at 32 deg not total that is around 50.

I have check TDC using piston stop timing mark is maybe 1/8" off.
Using stock dist with printronix flame throwerII insert.


383 stroker
Edelbrock rpm performer heads
Edelbrock Performer manifold
Edelbrock 1406 600 CFM carb
Edelbrock Performer RPM Cam and Lifter Kits 7102
Rocker arms
Scat crank and rods
9.6:1 comp
Double roller chain set 6 on cam 12 on crank and 0 degs of advance.

When setting timing vac adv.is disconnected and plugged.
The last I checked when installing the dist on a sbc if it was at TDC on comp cyld 1 you had to make the contact point towards cylinder 1 (driver side front) and the vac canister on passenger side.

The engine fires pretty well but I think should fire faster.

Any Ideas or just accept due to the cam that the timing is not falling in spec (personally I do not buy this) I think something is wrong.

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Old 03-16-2013, 11:25 PM
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383 stroker need help

Maybe this will help you some. When you have the crank gear at 12:00 and the cam gear at 6:00 install the distributor with the rotor pointing to # 6 on the distributor cap. When you have the crank gear at 12:00 and the cam gear at 12:00 install the distributor with the rotor pointing to #1 on the distributor cap. When setting the initial timing try 12* BTDC with the vacuum hose diconnected and plugged. Using a dial back timing light have someone hold the rpms to around 3000-3500. Set the total advance to 36*-38*. The initial timing plus the mechanical timing = the total timing. Here is a Wiki article on setting up HEI distributors. It will explain initial timing, mechanical timing, and vacuum advance. http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...EI_distributor
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Old 03-17-2013, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matheny00 View Post
Have a nice 383 stroker and my initial timing is sitting at 32 deg not total that is around 50.

I have check TDC using piston stop timing mark is maybe 1/8" off.
Using stock dist with printronix flame throwerII insert.


383 stroker
Edelbrock rpm performer heads
Edelbrock Performer manifold
Edelbrock 1406 600 CFM carb
Edelbrock Performer RPM Cam and Lifter Kits 7102
Rocker arms
Scat crank and rods
9.6:1 comp
Double roller chain set 6 on cam 12 on crank and 0 degs of advance.

When setting timing vac adv.is disconnected and plugged.
The last I checked when installing the dist on a sbc if it was at TDC on comp cyld 1 you had to make the contact point towards cylinder 1 (driver side front) and the vac canister on passenger side.

The engine fires pretty well but I think should fire faster.

Any Ideas or just accept due to the cam that the timing is not falling in spec (personally I do not buy this) I think something is wrong.
Find true TDC and install a timing tape so you know exactly what the timing is.

You will need to limit the mechanical advance to keep the total timing from being too high with the amount of initial timing the engine needs.

More here.

You need a high rise dual plane like the RPM.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:08 AM
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You don't need 32* inititial, and 50* total mechanical is WAAAAAYYYY too much. It may hot that at light throttle cruise with the vac advance connected, but NEVER just mechanical. That cam likes about 18* to 20* initial and about 34* to 36* total all in by about 3k rpm. Also, you're running the wrong intake for that cam.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg T View Post
You don't need 32* inititial, and 50* total mechanical is WAAAAAYYYY too much. It may hot that at light throttle cruise with the vac advance connected, but NEVER just mechanical. That cam likes about 18* to 20* initial and about 34* to 36* total all in by about 3k rpm. Also, you're running the wrong intake for that cam.
The manifold and cam was sold as a package from Edelbrock so I can not see how it is the wrong intake for the cam?

I guess the confusion is I know where my TDC is the balancer is marked the timing mark is within 1-2 degs of accurate. With that said going back to the begining of all this can the issue be the distributor is off a tooth being this was a points unit then the printronixs was added or is that a none issue?

I agree the timing is way to high but unless someone can come up with a reason then I am still out of luck.

Can the timing chain be off 1 tooth by accident and cause this as I really do not want to pull the front of the engine off for no reason?

Thanks for the start of this I am sure we will be talking soon again.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:35 AM
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The timing chain or dizzy gear location is irellavent, your timing is measured at the spark plug not off the cam. The performer intake is good for grocery getters or towing vehicles, edelbrock doesn't sell a good cam for anything.

Either your wrong on your timing measurements, your timing light is bad, or your going to detonate like hell for a short time then break a piston. The correct timing needs have already been given, so now you need to recheck everything and make sure that is where your timing is at.
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
The timing chain or dizzy gear location is irellavent, your timing is measured at the spark plug not off the cam. The performer intake is good for grocery getters or towing vehicles, edelbrock doesn't sell a good cam for anything.

Either your wrong on your timing measurements, your timing light is bad, or your going to detonate like hell for a short time then break a piston. The correct timing needs have already been given, so now you need to recheck everything and make sure that is where your timing is at.
So far I have 3 different suggestions..

Find true TDC and install tape done already...

tear off the front of the engine and put in the distributor not sure why I need to tear the front of the engine back off to install the distributor?

The timing is way too high...

The timing chain and dizzy are irrelevant, and I will detonate till i blow a piston...

The weird thing is it starts good runs hard and does not ping or detonate on reg pump gas...

So what I do not understand is in all the suggestions I have yet to understand what is possibly causing this every one says it is bad but what is causing this? And I have tried 3 timing lights not the light...


Sorry if I sound short fighting one heck of a chest cold also...

So I would like to try and understand what can cause this because it is obviously not just a simple timing turn the dizzy issue.
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:20 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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If your light is right and you're not detonating then your tape is either installed improperly or be balancer is moving. Either is possible.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
If your light is right and you're not detonating then your tape is either installed improperly or be balancer is moving. Either is possible.
Ok the tape is correct I used a piston stop to confirm marked the side of the balancer to see if any slippage none.

Put piston stop in cylinder 1 rotated till piston touched marked rotated opposite direction till piston stopped marked split the difference for correct TDC.
Put the tape on at the new TDC as 0 the starting point from the new mark. Reguarding the timing light I have tried 3 of them. That is why I keep wondering about the printronix unit in the Dizzy to me it seems to be the only non mechanical issue that can not be confirmed.
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Old 03-17-2013, 04:20 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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The petronix unit won't cause your problem.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:10 PM
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Then what will the timing mark has been checked the timing light has been checked by using 2 others the only thing I have left is the timing gear and chain if I set that one tooth off but from what I have read that won't cause this..'


So I guess what I am asking for is what will cause this issue so I can check those items I just took the truck out and it does ping under heavy load so brought it home and shut it down.

I have no issue pulling the front of the engine off if there is a chance the timing gear is off I just looked at the unit I bought and it is a SUM-G6600-B by summit it has many cogs on the loweer gear maybee that is on wrong?
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:49 PM
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383

My 383 stroker is running about 38 degrees when its all in. You aren't far off. I had similar problems with mine seeming to be way out there. I had gear driven timing. When all was said and done...there is no play in the gears as there is in a chain. It caused mine to read higher then it would have with a chain. I swapped mine out for a chain and dialed it in at 38 degrees...swapped the gears back in and it once again read over 42 degrees. Have you tried advancing the timing more? Forget what the light is telling you right now...tune it by ear a bit and then see what your light is telling you.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakebit68 View Post
My 383 stroker is running about 38 degrees when its all in. You aren't far off. I had similar problems with mine seeming to be way out there. I had gear driven timing. When all was said and done...there is no play in the gears as there is in a chain. It caused mine to read higher then it would have with a chain. I swapped mine out for a chain and dialed it in at 38 degrees...swapped the gears back in and it once again read over 42 degrees. Have you tried advancing the timing more? Forget what the light is telling you right now...tune it by ear a bit and then see what your light is telling you.
This is bad advice, your method of cam drive will not affect how your timing reads, but it can alter your actual timing.

Your engine is rattling because you have too much advance, adjust to the recommended specs and you'll be fine. Do so before you drive it any more and you may have been lucky enough to escape serious damage. You will probably need to adjust your carb too as it works in conjunction with your timing.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matheny00 View Post
Ok the tape is correct I used a piston stop to confirm marked the side of the balancer to see if any slippage none.

Put piston stop in cylinder 1 rotated till piston touched marked rotated opposite direction till piston stopped marked split the difference for correct TDC.
Put the tape on at the new TDC as 0 the starting point from the new mark. Reguarding the timing light I have tried 3 of them. That is why I keep wondering about the printronix unit in the Dizzy to me it seems to be the only non mechanical issue that can not be confirmed.
I gave you a link that explains everything you need to know about timing the engine.

The problem as I see it, is the engine wants a lot of initial timing (not unusual for a big cam), but the mechanical advance is allowing TOO MUCH advance- the mechanical advance therefore needs to be LIMITED to keep the total timing from being too high. It's as simple (or as complicated) as that. Your move.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:15 PM
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When finding true TDC you do not re-position the timing tape on the balancer.
You re-position the timing pointer so it shows correct TDC on the balancer TDC mark.

Then install the timing tape.

Timing should be 20 to 26deg at idle initial.

34-36deg at max mech advance.. a 10 to 12deg mech adv curve.

Limit the travel of the mech adv to around 10deg.

Then 10 to 12deg of added vac advance at part throttle. Use ported vacuum on the carb.

Never assume that the cam is installed correctly with the right valve open close events
just cause you lined up the timing gear dots.
Especially with aftermarket stuff. If you want the cam in right degree it in. Ya it matters.

Use the 4" power step up springs in the carb. The 600cfm carb will need rejetting.
Should have bought the 750 carb.
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