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Old 04-10-2010, 05:53 PM
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383 stroker help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey guys, here it is in a nut shell....

I have a 350 SBC TPI and 700R4 trans that i want to rebuild when i get back from this deployment. this monster will be for street and strip. I want to use what i have so another motor is not an option (400 SBC would be nice). my goal is to push the envelope of HP/Trq as much as possible on pump gas without turbo, nitro, or s. charger(stars the limit) . as i am no a genius, but mechanically inclined please bare with me.

for my motor, so far, I want stroke to a 383 .40 over, 6" rods, 400 stroke crank all forged and one piece rms... any other suggestions? what type of pistons would be best for this applications (flat-top, dome, dish) at what compression ratio should i be shooting for? I want to go with the AFR heads and i was told that high compression is good for top-end and low compression is good for torque. if this is true would a 210 AFR aluminum head @ 65cc between 10.6:1 -11.0:1 be a good ratio? I definitely want to go with roller cam, what would be a good affordable brand to go with?
side note: I want to achieve the deep lobe sound of old school big blocks and there's a lot of tech data out on this subject such as "modifying the cam" "heads", or "exhaust"... I'm not that technical. i'm a simple guy that wants a bad ***** street/strip machine like any other red blooded American, but open to suggestions.

for my trans, I think is straight forward. i intend to get a high performance rebuild kit, shift kit, and a fourth gear lock-up. after reading other forums, i think a 2500 stall should do the trick, but I could be wrong?

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Last edited by youngsavage; 04-10-2010 at 10:50 PM. Reason: typo's
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:54 PM
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for one, what branch are you in, i got out of the navy last year after 6yrs i was a 2nd class (E-5).

i can relate to you and i think i could help you, i run a 383 @ .040 (385ci) street/strip motor in my 87' Z28 camaro, with a 700R4 trans. i'm not running a newer 1 pc rear main seal motor and i have a solid f/t cam, but i'm getting a touch over 500hp/500tq on pump gas and running mid 11's in a 3500lbs car. here are some parts i would suggest, and you might want to look at a higher stall converter, unless your idea of pushing the envelope and my idea of it are a bit different, oh and i wouldn't get wrapped up into the rod length, it really only beifits you when you get into all out comp racing, a 5.7 rod will do you just fine and will likely have more pistons to choose from.

scat 4340 3.75" crank 1pc rear main seal <http://www.competitionproducts.com/Scat-Forged-4340-Steel-Crank-Chev-SB-350-Main-3750/productinfo/435037505700L/>

scat 4340 5.7" rods <http://www.competitionproducts.com/Scat-4340-Forged-I-Beam-Rods-Chev-SB-LJ-5700/productinfo/SCR5AP/>

probe pistons they are a -4cc flat top it doesn't mention their compression height but i would guess that they are around 1.430 if this is so then your compression will be about 11:1 which for the solid cam that i will post will be perfect, but you will need to look futher into the cams to find out their degrees at intake closure and find a DCR calculator, you want your DCR around 8.3:1-8.6:1 in order to run pump gas, for the hyd cam you will probably want something closer to a -7-12cc valve relief/dish in the piston to get your compression closer to 10.0:1 <http://www.competitionproducts.com/Probe-FPS-
Forged-Pistons-Chev-SB-Flat-Top-4040-Bore/productinfo/PRBP3831F-040/>

AFR 210cc 66cc <http://www.competitionproducts.com/AFR-Alum-Race-Ready-Chev-SB-Head-210cc_66cc-Assm-Pair/productinfo/AFR1054/>

I'm going to post two cams, one hyd roller (which will be less maintenance) and one solid roller (requires setting the valve lash every few thousand miles, but this is the route i would go, it's worth it and with the larger runner heads you've selected they would be a better fit).
hyd roller <http://www.competitionproducts.com/H...ctinfo/180275/

solid roller <http://www.competitionproducts.com/Howards-Steel-Billet-Mech-Roller-Cam-Chev-SB-600_600/productinfo/111133-10/>

hyd roller lifters <http://www.competitionproducts.com/Hydraulic-Roller-Lifters-OE-Style-Chev-305-350-Gen-III-LS/productinfo/652416/>

solid roller lifter <http://www.competitionproducts.com/Howards-Vertical-Bar-Mechanical-Roller-Lifters-Chev-SB/productinfo/91117/>

roller lifter, 1.6 on the int, 1.5 on the exhaust, i would use these just because the AFR heads have excellent exhaust flow, and both cams are dual pattern <http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-90074/>

intake for the hyd set up <http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2975/>
edelbrock make a taller vic jr intake and that's the one i would use for the solid cam it's a 2999

carb for the hyd cam <http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-0-4779C/>

carb for the solid cam <http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-0-4781C/>

for the hyd roller cam i would estimate around 500hp

for the solid roller cam i would estimate around 570hp
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:56 PM
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sorry that sucks, not all the hyperlinks showed up, well i guess you will have to just copy and paste
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:17 PM
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thanks bro, that put a lot of things in perspective for me and gave me a better foundation I'm a E-5 in the Air Force part of the 407 Det that's pulling out of Iraq. since I will be using the TPI set-up from the 350, will need to upgrade my fuel system (injectors, fuel pump, sending unit?). also, what exactly is port matching and is this necessary for my set-up or porting my in/ex all together? is my trans setup sufficient aside from the stall? I'm going to research your info and let you know if I have any other questions...
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:36 PM
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i didn't realize that you were trying to reuse the TPI, i would recomend against that, as you will not be able to run the stuff i posted, it will far surpas the capablilties of the TPI, with the TPI you might be able to get 424hp and that is with sending the ECM off to be reprogramed (that will cost about 1000.00 alone) then yes you would need to upgrade the intank fuel pump/sending unit the injectors, fuel rails etc. for this i wouldn't even go forged on anything but the rods. i would get hyper pistons, cast steel crank, and still the same rods. unless you buy an aftermarket EFI system you'll max out by around 6000rpm. you also wont need anywhere near the 210cc AFR heads, you wouldn't need more than 180-195cc as you would never take advantage of the larger diameter runners cause you wouldn't be turning the motor up to high RPM's

as far as the 700R4 goes, i wouldn't build it your self, i would look into monster transmissions, it's where i got mine (rated at 600+hp) but i didn't get one of their stalls i bought one from hughes.

port matching is where you take the intake gasket and mark the intake runners on the heads and intake manifold and you grind them to match the gaskets diameter. as far as porting your intake and exhust runners/bowls, if you get a decent set of heads i would only suggest having some minor bowl work done and that would be about it. when you port out the runners you change the cross sectional area of the runner in which you may increase air flow but you may also decrease air velocity which at lower lifts means just as much as air flow at higher lifts
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:46 PM
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wow didn't know that about the TPI systems... the reason that i'm more partial to fuel injection is I was told it's more efficient and with bigger injectors you would be able to produce higher Hp's better than a carb system, but this is what i'm here for to learn so i'll look into that as well.
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:55 PM
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aw man who ever told you that dont listen to them anymore. a EFI system is more efficient but makes it much more expensive to make a lot of horsepower. either way you look at it, when you try and make good power, you're not going to get good gas mileage with or without EFI. EFI may give you 2-3 more MPG's but at a much higher cost.

take a look at what pretty much all sportsman class and your weekend bracket racers use. they use carburators unless they had the additional 2000-4000 to spend on a up to par EFI system, and if they did have that much extra cash just lying around most would for go the EFI and get a blower.

you never mentioned what this was going into and what it was going to be used for so it's my fault for jumping the gun and listing parts for a strong street/strip SBC. so now i ask what is this for, and what all can you tell me about the car. examples : what car, rear gear ratio, size tire, intended use etc
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:10 AM
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Well I am a F-body man and over the years I've restored a 91' firebird convertible. (before you say it) I know that a convertible is not an ideal strip car because of the weight, but like i said, I restored it and if all goes well this motor will be the platform for more projects to come...

i'm not sure what tire size to use but i have a 3.73 rear waiting to be installed. i want to try and get a C-5 rear as I have heard that it's very durable for a factory rear, but what do you think about the tire and rear for the setup you posted? oh, almost forgot... will solid cam you posted give me that deep loud lope idle i'm looking for?
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:37 AM
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a C5 rearend is a IRS rearend, not a live axle like a 10bolt or 12 bolt. like i mentioned before i 87' camaro Z28 so i like the 3rd gen F bodies too. you need to look into Moser cause they make a complete bolt in 12bolt rear for the 3rd gen F bodies. the 7.650 rear that is in your car now will break very fast under strong horsepower. i had the same thing in my camaro (7.5, but it's still the same ring and pinion gears) and i put the 385 that i have in there now in it and i made metal soup of the posi unit and the ring and pinion. i bought one the Moser rears with 33 spline axles and have not had a problem since but they cost about 2800-3000. these cars are one of the most difficult vehicles to put a stronger (stock like ford 9", or 8.5" 10 bolt or 12 bolt) rear in because of the torque arm location. that is why i recomend the Moser 12 bolt, or Strange makes a complete 12 bolt for these cars too.

the two motors i listed parts for are not for the weak at heart, they will be aggressive and possibley have bad street manners, but it all depends on how much you're able to deal with. the motor in my car is on the edge of what i could deal with out of a small block on the street (a big block is a whole nother creature) the whole car would need to be set up for either of these two motors, new struts up front, rear shocks, 4-link, strong rear, strong trans, subframe connectors (welded not bolt on), a decent size tire (atleast P275-60R15 if not bigger)

about the solid cam i mentioned, oh yes it would probably have a lot more lope than what you are thinking of, it will sound like a bracket car, because that would be the kind of motor that it would be in, it would probably have to idle around 1200rpm. i have a solid flat-tappet cam that is not as aggressive as the solid roller i mentioned and mine idles around 950-1050rpm and sounds nasty. if you are looking for more of a nice lope street friendly motor, i wouldn't really build either of the two i mentioned as they would both be kinda nasty and ill mannered on the street. you can get the lope you're talking about from a cam that has 224-232 @ .050 and it would be much more street friendly. the reeason i mentioned the two cams i did is because you said you wanted to push the envelope and i was also going off the fact you might know what a head such as the AFR 210 heads are used for
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:42 AM
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sorry, bad english in my previous post, it's a little late
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:02 AM
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no bro, you did great!!!! that's exactly what i'm looking for!!! i want to burn up the streets and wake up the neighbor for 6am revelry ... i'm definite'y going to consider the forged set-up with the and solid roller and cam you suggested. I think all i need now is a good set of springs and push rods and i should be good to go. i'm looking at a 700 "mega raptor" from transmissionhead.com = http://www.transmissionhead.com/#Stage3 check'em when you have time and let me know what you think...
do i need to do anything to that carb u suggested? don't know too much about carbs so this will be a first... when it's all said and done i'm going to get the whole thing dyno and tuned... thanks again for all your help i didn't anyone was going to help me... i have 2 more months in this hell hole and i can't wait to get started...
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Old 04-11-2010, 05:49 PM
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the raptor trans is a great transmission, they are just coslty, that is why i went with monster transmissions cause they are about half the cost. if you end up using the AFR heads call then up or look up which springs they use, i remember seeing that they were 1.550" dual springs, but you will need to know their seat pressure and their open pressure, then call the cam company of your choice (if you go howards make sure you call, dont e-mail) and ask them what are the recomended seat pressure and open pressure for the cam you are looking at. then just make sure the ones that come on the AFR heads are right in that range. push rods are the last thing you buy when you are building a motor, because you need to have everything together and buy a push rod lenght checker (they sell them at all the major high performance dealers) then you buy machinest dye and coat the top of the valve stem where the rocker end touches, put the push rod checker in tighten the rocker arm, set the lash and then turn the motor over one full turn. then loosen the rocker arm to see where the wear pattern is on the valve stem, to get the measurment right you want the wear pattern to be centered on the valve stem then you would pull the push rod checker out and measure it will a digital caliper and then you would call up what ever push rod manufacturer you wanted and order that exact size pushrod from them.

as far as tuning the carb, if you are going to take the motor to have it dyno tested and tuned then i would just let them do it, they have the technology to get it exactly the way you want it.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:32 AM
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I'm reading some super-chevy forums to better formulate my questions as-well as increase my understanding so that i don't burn you out too fast :0D. they have a great tech article about building a 383 sbc that was very insightful. I think we'll be good on the motor build, for now anyway... as far as the trans go, let's get a little more in-depth. what is a good stall for a 500 - 600 hp motor like this? I read a few forums about locking up in fourth gear in a 700R4, what exactly does this do besides provide oil/lub to the gear to keep from burning up the trans? is it just to keep from burning up the trans when running high RPM's? lastly, will an valve body shift kit do the trick? or are there different ones for different applications? I know that if I get a trans form monster or raptor i don't have to really worry about this, but just for FYI as always... thanks.
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:45 AM
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with the solid cam i recomended i would go after a 4000 stall, you want your stall speed to be atleast 500rpm above you cam's power band start point. a typical non lock up tq converter always has some degree of slippage between the enginie and the transmission even at high speeds, this causes worse fuel milage as there is un used power from the engine. that is where a lock up tq converter comes in to play, it locks the transmission with the engine so that no slippage happens and helps fuel economy. have you ever driven and gotten on the highway, knew you where in over drive then all of a sudden the rpms dropped about another 200 or so rpm, alomost like another gear, this is the tq convertere locking up. it tends to help heat in the trans and for the car to cruise at a lower rpm.

here is what i recomend, unless you're worred about gas milage in your 500-600hp engine then dont get the lock up tq converter, just get a good external transmission cooler and a none lock up. since the solid cam you like will put the motors power band at 3000 rpm you will want the car to cruise at as close to that as possible.

no a shift kit wont work, it might work for about 300-350hp in the 700R4, but the sun shell, vanes, bands, steels, cluches, eliment sprag as well as the servo all need to be upgraded. from the factory the 700R4 is a weak trasmission, but it can be built to handle just as much hp/tq as th350 but it will cost more money than a th350 would to get it built to do so, this is why you dont see it as often

my trans cooler cost about 275.00 and has the electric fan, i got a gauge pod with a trans temp sensor (not elctronic, i emagine it is mercury) and my trans at normal driving doesn't go above 125, but if i'm at the race track hitting it hard it may see 150-160, once you trans get up to about 225-250 you will start to see failure earlier and if it hits 275-300 then look out it's getting ready to fry. these 3rd gen F-bodies have cooling issues because of the restrictive front air dam, so you will want to get a good alm radiator with large coils and a good 3000+cfm elc puller fan. i have a 4500cfm elc puller fan and my motor even at the track has never seen over 185 in 95 weather
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:49 AM
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dont worry about burning me out, i enjoy spreading the knowlege and helping people, everyone had to start somewhere, and if they didn't have people helping them then they sure made some mistakes and learned the hard way. you're still going to make some mistakes but if you keep asking questions then those mistake shuold be minimal
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