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Old 07-24-2010, 10:50 PM
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383 stroker build Q's

I have posted here before on the 383 that I am building and I just have a few questions on parts that I have purchased and maybe some recommendations or a nudge in the right direction.
First off the stroker crank that I have is cast nodular iron, I have a stock 86 one piece RMS block that has the provisions for the use of roller cam/lifters which I will be using.The pistons that I have purchased are a set of forged speed pro PN L2491NF30, this is about as far as I have made it but I plan on buying a set of aluminum heads (AFR?), a Edelbrock RPM Airgap intake, Quick fuel carb (annular?) and a cam that will come close to matching these.....HUmm....HUumm....
I guess the one place that I am stumped at is the selection of heads, the pistons that I purchased have a -3.4cc Dome and in the Summit catalog it shows that these pistons when used with a 64cc chamber would net a 10.76 compression ratio but when I run it threw the calculator, I get a CR of 12.23 which is way to high. If i run it threw with a 74cc head I get 10.8 and a 10.6 with 76cc, this doesnt even come close as to what they were rated at in the catalog. I have came across a set of aluminum 74cc heads that look to be in good shape but I dont want the CR to be so high that I am stuck using racing fuel. Without a set of heads I cannot further my project so this is where I was hoping a few would step in and help me wrap my brain around this and point me in a direction so I can get back to building.
I was hoping for a 475~HP motor, the carb is another spot Im stuck on the decision making as I thought about the Quick fuel 750AN but it has the choke tower, wasnt sure how much that would hinder performance. I could get there Q series in a 750 but it doesnt com in a annular, just down leg.
Thought? suggestions?
Thanks
GM

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Old 07-24-2010, 11:59 PM
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784 cc's in the cylinder
75 cc's in an AFR 1036 Street head (195/75)
0 cc's in the piston deck (zero deck = 9.005")
3.4 cc's in the piston eyebrows
9.1 cc's in the Fel-Pro 1003 head gasket
Total ingested 871.5 cc's
Total squeezed into 87.5 cc's
Divide the larger by the smaller and find 9.96:1 static compression ratio.
Generally speaking, this will require a camshaft with 0.050" duration of 222 to 232. There are of course, exceptions. I'm just trying to get you in the ballpark. A cam in the shorter range would like a looser converter in the range of 2200/2500 rpm's. A longer cam in the 230+ range might work better with a looser converter, somewhere in the 2800/3000+ range.

The longer the cam, the more you will need shorter gears in the differential. You will also need to completely re-program your ignition curve. The more cam you use, the more spark ignition lead you need to dial in at the crank. This, of course, requires shortening the mechanical advance to limit total initial/mechanical advance.

The idea here is to begin to get a blueprint for the build, a plan that will work to accomplish what you want to do with the motor/vehicle. When you are getting in the ballpark, then it's time to lean on the professionals. Call up your favorite cam grinder and ask for a grind recommendation. This is a free service because the manufacturer has a lot to lose if you choose the wrong cam and begin bad-mouthing their product. Same with the torque converter. Call up the manufacturers of your choice when you get close to ordering up parts. Have all the specs in front of you so that the professional on the other end of the phone can make an intelligent recommendation.

Last edited by techinspector1; 07-25-2010 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:31 AM
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The "-3.4cc dome" means that there is no dome on the piston because of the minus sign, and it is either 3.4cc volume to the valve reliefs, or the relief volume and a small dish in the top of the piston, a dome would be a plus sign, at least in TRW speak. Not your fault to wonder, seems different companies do it as a "+" in their equations, wish they would all use the same standard for comparison.

In the case of the L2491F is a 2-valve relief flat top piston, no dish. Pretty decent piston, reasonably light and tough. Makes the 10.76 compression ratio as listed with a 64cc head and piston .025" below deck. Makes 11.15 at zero deck

Techinpsector laid out the math for th 75cc head and this piston in his post.
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Old 07-25-2010, 01:41 AM
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I will be running a manual Trans. so no torque converter to get in the way, what is the deciding factor in between
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
Makes the 10.76 compression ratio as listed with a 64cc head and piston .025" below deck. Makes 11.15 at zero deck
, so right now stock it is .025"(-) below the deck giving it a 10.76CR with 64cc heads but if I have them ZERO deck it at the machine shop (.005~) it will have the CR@ 11.15 .
With a set of 74cc heads and a zero deck using copper head gaskets (4.060/.032) that will bring me in at about 10.31 on the static compression maybe, is it ok to go over the 10.0:1 and not go over 10.5:1? I had found these heads that I may be able to get a little cheaper but like I said they are 74cc..........or would it be better to hold off and get a set that is 64cc? and not have the block zero decked?
Also I was looking to use a cam around the 232 duration range @ .050, maybe just a hair higher but not much.
Any experience with the quick fuel carbs?
Thanks again for your replies guys, its much appreciated
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Old 07-25-2010, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoonshine
With a set of 74cc heads and a zero deck using copper head gaskets (4.060/.032) that will bring me in at about 10.31 on the static compression maybe, is it ok to go over the 10.0:1 and not go over 10.5:1?
I don't believe you can use copper gaskets with aluminum heads. A composition gasket will prevent fretting of the aluminum.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:32 AM
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OK, maybe I should have ask,
What would be a good set of heads to use for my build?

Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
I don't believe you can use copper gaskets with aluminum heads. A composition gasket will prevent fretting of the aluminum.
techinspector1, I wasnt aware that you couldnt or isnt recommended to use copper gaskets with aluminum heads, what style of gaskets do they use on newer cars equipped with factory turbo's or even superchargers? these would most likely have aluminum heads, maybe there is a coating you can apply to all copper gaskets.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:56 AM
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In my opinion, you're just asking for trouble with your obsession of 10+ on the static compression ratio. Where did you get the idea that you need that much on the street? Seriously, back off and build a motor that is between 9.0 and 9.9 that will operate on pump gas without detonation. In my opinion, you've started off with the wrong pistons anyway. Should have been 18cc D-cups. They would make 9.7:1 with a 64cc head.

I don't know what the OEM's use, but generally speaking, the boost is not that high on an OEM application, so composition gaskets would work.

Last edited by techinspector1; 07-26-2010 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:11 PM
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If you were to use copper head gaskets, the advantages are good heat transfer and that the gaskets are reusable as long as they're not crimped. They're available in almost any thickness. They seal high compression/nitrous/boosted engines well.

What they don't do particularly well is seal coolant. That's why it's always recommended that a sealant be used. Some makers of Cu head gaskets even tell you to be ready w/your favorite flavor of stop-leak if the engine uses coolant.

But all that said, I would rather use a good composite or MLS set than copper. This was after doing a fair amount of research on the subject before settling on composite gaskets for my own use.

Last edited by cobalt327; 07-26-2010 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:48 PM
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The compression height on these pistons are what is throwing me off. Most 383 pistons have a CH of 1.425 as to where these have a 1.430CH, so when I figure out the total stroke
Stroke: 3.75 divided x 2= 1.875"
Rod: 5.70"
CH: 1.430"
TOTAL= 9.005"
and a stock 350's deck is 9.025"
Im in the hole .020"
I found this felpro gasket http://www.jegs.com/i/Fel%20Pro/375/...0002/-1?CT=999 which is .015" thick
by using these my quench will sit at .035" and with the use of 74cc heads my compression will be 10.24:1
I have read people using 10.75:1 on pump gas without detonation or any other ill side affects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
In my opinion, you've started off with the wrong pistons anyway.
Its too late, I already own them so theres no turning back now........besides I only payed $360 for this set of forgins delivered to my front door as I dont have a speed shop to go to, I rely on catalogs and the internet for everything I get, that includes information.
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:08 PM
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I think those pistons are just fine, I've used them before, good piston for the $. Your plan with the 74cc head and .015"" gasket is great, with aluminum heads it will easily be fine on pump gas with 10.25-1 compression, you have excellent quench.

We run this same pistom combo with same quench but RHS/PROTopline Iron Lightning 65cc heads in a drag car 11.2-1 comp but on 108 race fuel(we spray it too), it will run fine on about 95 octane mix when street driven a distance, we could even back the timing off a little and use 93 if needed.

Don't go too small with the cam, don't close the intake valve too early.
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Old 07-27-2010, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
Don't go too small with the cam, don't close the intake valve too early.
GO on I'm listening
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:18 AM
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This is one of the cam's I have ben thinking about using http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-443-8/
I'm utilizing my blocks ability to use a factory roller cam
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenmoonshine
This is one of the cam's I have ben thinking about using http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-443-8/
I'm utilizing my blocks ability to use a factory roller cam
Nothing wrong with that
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:44 PM
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You should probably get your block zero decked as these blocks drop down some in the area below the center exhaust ports. Use a .039-.041" Felpro performance head gasket. This will give you a perfect quench/squish.

BBP
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:50 AM
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I have been looking around for a set of heads, like I had stated I found a older pair of AFR's that are 74cc and have 195cc runners. I haven't made up my mind on them yet as I also have been looking at a set of the Pro-filers which I believe ericnova72 knows a little about, I was doing some research on them and many people had really good things to say about the company and who they are as people which in my opinion speaks volumes louder than what a magazine could print! I contacted them last night about there heads and wanted to know if they offer a set in or around 75cc as there sight only showed them in the 64cc. I got a message back today saying that they do carry a set of "72cc" heads which I'm hoping to get a little more info on.
I do have one question though, if I run the cam that I previously posted a link too, a cam with that much lift, what would be a good set a valve springs to run? Like I said I dont have a full set of details about the pro-filer heads yet but dont want to order a assembled set when I will be unable to use the valve springs, maybe get them bare and add to my likings.
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