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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumvbo View Post
Now a few question, is it worth to spend a considerable amount of money on the heads or would we be fine using the stock vortec heads that he has on his motor now, given the mild build ? And in that case how should the heads be reworked ?
Stock L31 Vortecs will flow about the same as the EQ heads I used on the DynoSim. The cam I used has more lift than the L31 cam, so we will have to change out the springs, locks and retainers for units that will allow more valve lift without crashing the bottom of the retainers into the valve seals. I probably wouldn't use these parts on a real hot cam, but for this short cam that we're using, they should work fine....
VALVE SPRING KIT, SB CHEVY VORTEC, HI-PERF HYD ROLLER - Alex's Parts Sales
Since the stock springs will be in the 260 lbs range over the nose and the replacement springs will be in the 300 lbs range over the nose, I would take precautions to prevent pulling the rocker studs out of the heads. It has been told to me that these studs are pretty hard to pull out, as compared to the older Chevy heads, but still, I'd rather be safe than sorry. The quick, easy fix is to pin the studs with a rollpin. I've been chastized for using this procedure, having it called "old school" by some. Well, the fact of the matter is that I'm old school myself and this procedure has worked for me before. Pin the studs with this kit to prevent them pulling out....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-806g
While the whole mess is apart, replace the seals with good quality units. Tap them down on the guide with a socket and hammer.

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Originally Posted by Gumvbo View Post
Also I read somewhere that TBI heads are better than Vortecs in order to produce low end torque. What's your mind on the subject ?
I have zero experience with TBI (swirl port) heads, but I'm of the mind that most any cylinder head that will flow about the same at low rpm's as the L31's or EQ's will get the job done.

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Originally Posted by Gumvbo View Post
How about running full dual exhaust instead of joining the exhaust before the muffler, and regarding mufflers would glass packs be ok or better use different style with more backpressure ?
As I said above, I'm an old school kind of guy and like to use stuff that I know works rather than using something that I'm unfamiliar with. If this were my truck and I didn't have to follow any U.S. Federal Emissions guidelines (because I lived in Italy), I'd start with a set of 1 5/8" primary tube, equal-length, long-tube headers. Right after the collectors, I'd install either an X or and H pipe to equalize the exhaust pulses between the left and right cylinder banks to sweeten the exhaust note and possibly improve fuel mileage a little. I'd then use 2 1/2" pipe back to a pair of these mufflers....
Cherry Bomb 87519 Cherry Bomb Glasspack Mufflers
Then to the rear bumper with 2 1/2" pipe. I would not terminate the pipes under the vehicle in any case. Been there, done that. The droning from the exhaust against the sheet metal floor of the vehicle will make you crazy pretty quickly. Run the pipes to the rear and end them with some nice chrome tips.

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Originally Posted by Gumvbo View Post
@ Techinspector. THANK YOU so much for the time you spend in running the syms. I am aware the time it takes to run all the possible combinations. When I will have the money to get me a new motor I will ask for your advice, or I will builld one just like lollo's since we have exact same requirements ! THANK YOU !
You're welcome.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2013, 01:16 PM
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0.500 max valve lift is good??
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo View Post
0.500 max valve lift is good??
This is an off-the-wall question and has nothing to do with the information I posted. I have no idea what you're trying to say or ask. 0.500" max valve lift is neither good nor bad. Where did you see this? You're not making any sense.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:29 PM
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Tecinspector1 I'm sorry, as I said my English is not very good, especially in technical terms.
Since the heads are sold bare or assembled I wanted to know what features the maximum lift of the cam was expected.
when I can not write in English easily I use google translate and come out of this crap post. I'm sorry.
Should I buy the heads and I have to decide in the spring valve lift , I wanted to know if 0.500 is right , or I say things out of place.
X4258HR have 0.458 max. valve lift, so I think that 0.500 is enough, but as you know everything on that engines maybe you can redirect me to right way if I'm wrong.
This is my first time with chevy engine.
Headers must be tri-y or long tube, with H or X pipe before the actual cats, so I have to take off cats! I need an emulator for Computer because I have dual sensor, before and after the cats. I'm right?

Last edited by lollo; 05-05-2013 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:25 AM
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Excuse me guys,
I've wrote to Rogers performance because they have the EQ vortec heads that Techinspector1 have suggest me (CC167CS2). These heads, in their site, comes with 2.02 intake valve and 1.6 exhaust valve.
They told me : "You can not just put 202 160 valves in a head you have to do chamber work and the bowl area."
I'm sorry but I don't understand what they mean. Any Ideas?
Which kind of work is needed?
I have send the same question to Rogers Performance, I'm waiting for answer, then I post it.
I have ordered the camshaft to compcams....

Last edited by lollo; 05-06-2013 at 07:55 AM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2013, 10:00 AM
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Answer from Rogers Performance:
"If you don,t open the chamber and bowl up you will lose flow with the bigger valves from crowding."

Did you think that's real? I know that if the head is ported can have a better flow, but I don't think that is necessary if the head come with bigger valve from EQ.
I would thinking that EQ made the heads with the right flow.
Or I'm in wrong? Maybe he want to perform the flow for High torque?
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2013, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo View Post
Excuse me guys,
I've wrote to Rogers performance because they have the EQ vortec heads that Techinspector1 have suggest me (CC167ES2). These heads, in their site, comes with 2.02 intake valve and 1.6 exhaust valve.
They told me : "You can not just put 202 160 valves in a head you have to do chamber work and the bowl area."
I'm sorry but I don't understand what they mean. Any Ideas?
Which kind of work is needed?
I have send the same question to Rogers Performance, I'm waiting for answer, then I post it.
I have ordered the camshaft to compcams....
.................................................. ..................................................
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2013, 03:17 PM
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OK, I'm confused. Do you have a set of heads in your possession that you have bought from Rogers or do you not have a set of heads in your possession that you bought from Rogers?

It sounds like Rogers thinks you have a set of their heads already and want to install bigger valves in them, changing from 1.94"/1.50" valves to 2.02"/1.60" valves. Do you have a set of their heads now or do you not?

To answer your question above, any spring/retainer/lock combo that will accomodate 0.500" lift will be OK with a camshaft valve lift of 0.500" or less. You want to make certain though, that the spring is strong enough to control the lifter on the profile of the camshaft and not allow the lifter to "loft" off the lobe. Hydraulic roller tappets are very heavy compared to hydraulic flat tappets and will require more spring strength to retain the tappet on the cam.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo View Post
Tecinspector1 I'm sorry, as I said my English is not very good, especially in technical terms.
Sorry, I forgot about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo View Post
Since the heads are sold bare or assembled I wanted to know what features the maximum lift of the cam was expected.
You can buy the heads bare and install the springs, locks and retainers that are recommended by the manufacturer for that particular grind of cam (highly recommended) or you can tell the head manufacturer what cam you will be using and let them install springs, locks and retainers at the factory before they ship the heads to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo View Post
Should I buy the heads and I have to decide in the spring valve lift , I wanted to know if 0.500 is right , or I say things out of place.
X4258HR have 0.458 max. valve lift, so I think that 0.500 is enough, but as you know everything on that engines maybe you can redirect me to right way if I'm wrong.
You're doing fine. If you are going to order the bare heads and install the springs, locks and retainers which you will buy from the cam manufacturer, then the only thing that you will need to make sure of is that the spring pocket diameters that are machined into the heads will match the spring diameter. If you buy the springs, locks and retainers from the cam manufacturer, they will have an installed height information for you to follow. You may or may not have to use shims to get to the installed height, depending on the depth of the valve spring cut in the heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo View Post
This is my first time with chevy engine.
All of us had a first time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo View Post
Headers must be tri-y or long tube, with H or X pipe before the actual cats, so I have to take off cats! I need an emulator for Computer because I have dual sensor, before and after the cats. I'm right?
Please don't misunderstand. I'm not suggesting that you remove anything from the vehicle. When I told you how I would do it, that does not mean that you have to do it exactly the same way that I would. If you want to retain all the stock exhaust system, then retain all the stock exhaust system. I was just saying that in order to achieve maximum performance from the combination, I would do it as I described.
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Old 05-06-2013, 05:18 PM
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Thank you for your reply,
I have ordered today the heads!
The first time that I have contact Rogers performance I have ask for Vortec heads, after your suggestion ha have tell him that the heads were wrong for my combo and I have asked for the CC167ES2. He misunderstood, maybe because my english is not good, and was thinking my request was for vortec with bigger valve size and work to decrease compression.
now we have talk and he have understand that I will buy the CC167ES2 heads.
Now that we understand each other I gave confirmation of the heads and I also told him to send the heads assembled with valves and springs, with 0.500 max lift and 300 lbs range over the nose.
heads assembled will cost 950$. I don't know if is a good or bad price but I don't want to waste much time looking for other prices.
haeds are not vortec, so I need the inteke manifold pre-vortec. Have you any suggestion?
I have understand that your suggestion on the exhaust system was to achieve maximum performance.
As the truck is a daily driver I was thinking that the glass pack are a little noisy. may I use a dual exhaust? did you think that the performance will stay around your symulation? Headers will be tri-y or long depends by the cost.

Thank you very much!!!

Last edited by lollo; 05-06-2013 at 05:23 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2013, 06:04 PM
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I sure hope I haven't screwed this up for you. If you were planning to install the L31 Vortec EFI intake manifold, then those heads won't work. I didn't realize that the 76cc chamber heads were not Vortec heads.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
I sure hope I haven't screwed this up for you. If you were planning to install the L31 Vortec EFI intake manifold, then those heads won't work. I didn't realize that the 76cc chamber heads were not Vortec heads.
I think your OK Richard, he mentions above "still need a pre vortec intake" and asks for suggestions....
Good old Edelbrock 7101 fit the bill?
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
I sure hope I haven't screwed this up for you. If you were planning to install the L31 Vortec EFI intake manifold, then those heads won't work. I didn't realize that the 76cc chamber heads were not Vortec heads.
Don't worry Techinspector1, you have suggest the right way to have to engine that I was trying to build.
At first time I was using the Vortec heads because the OEM engine is vortec, so was just a Philosofy to stay on vortec, but your simulation have show me that was not the right way!
I think that if the EQ heads flows as L31 vortec and give the low end torque that is simulated the philosofy can stay in my pocket and not in my mind.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
I think your OK Richard, he mentions above "still need a pre vortec intake" and asks for suggestions....
Good old Edelbrock 7101 fit the bill?
Thanks for suggestion, I will look at Edelbrock.
I need to know if this intake manifold support the efi system or need to be modified.
My EFI system have 8 injector and I need to modified every kind of intakes to install the other 8 injectors for LPG system.
I can't swap an engine that works only in gasoline. LPG is too used here on US cars because the gas pump costs are too high.
Thank you bygddy!!
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:56 AM
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I'm helping out lollo on this so I guess I can say something on the matter.
He doesn't much care reusing any of the parts he has on his motor now, including heads, intake manifolds and exhaust system.
We both were IMPRESSED by the low end torque figures of the motor that Techinspector symulated, so he wants to build the motor to meet those specs as close as possible. Maybe with the exception of the glasspacks so he doesn't get too many bills, as the truck is a daily driver - I'd use glasspacks on mine since it's not a DD .
So the heads he has to buy - or he has ordered a few hours ago as when I last spoke to him yesterday the order was not yet confirmed.

Now maybe a dumb question, but if those heads he says he bought are pre-vortecs, then the intake manifold too will have to be pre-vortec, so what about the injection ?
I am sure he wants to retain EFI (no carburetor), so I wonder if he will need a TBI to match the prevortec heads or he can still somehow use the Multiport injection that the truck comes with....
Which brings me to question you guys also about the flow recommended out of the injection system and ideal fuel pressure for the application.

@lollo, I guess it would be a VERY GOOD idea if the person you're talking to at Rogers would take a look at this thread....or join in.
And maybe you shouldn't be in such a hurry placing the order.
You don't want the wrong stuff shipped across the ocean...

Last edited by Gumvbo; 05-07-2013 at 03:05 AM.
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