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Old 06-25-2013, 08:48 PM
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383 stroker over heating

I have recently built a 383 but I can't get it to run cool the highest I've seen it was 235 and shut it down but I know it will keep climbing. The cooling system is all new, alu radiator, high flow pump, electric fan 14" 2500cfm. I think it is either timming, Carb, or my cam.
Engine
Gen 1 4 boltmain block
Scat rotating assembly with KB +13 CC pistons 10:1 CR
intake-edelbrock rpm air gap
Cam- big muther thumper(may have been a big mistake) flat tappet
Comp alu roller tip rockers
Heads 210 CC intake runners 2.1 intake 1.6 exhaust 62 CC chamber
MSD street fire dist with MSD box
Carb- edelbrock 1406 650 cfm( my other mistake)
Trans- 2 speed powerglide with shift kit, manual valve body, and 3500 stall
Rear - 4:11 gear with posi lock
Fender well headers to 3 1/2 inch Magna flow mufflers (can't sneak up on anybody)

Initial timing was set at 22 so I could keep throtle plates closed enough to run on idle circuit. Limited my mech advance to 14 and have a total of 36 at 3000 rpm. I'm not sure what else to try it would be nice to drive the car more than 10 miles before it starts overheating.

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Old 06-25-2013, 08:58 PM
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Is your fan set up as a puller? You have a full shroud? What temp thermostat are you using? Running lean, any vacuum leaks?
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:04 PM
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fan is a puller, there is no shroud, removed thermostat but have tried a 190 and 160. The motor even builds heat while during down the road at 50 mph
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:07 PM
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no vacuum leaks and the Carb was changed to the richest it could go recently from the stock setting but still overheats
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Xchevy II View Post
fan is a puller, there is no shroud, removed thermostat but have tried a 190 and 160. The motor even builds heat while during down the road at 50 mph
Get a shroud, if its hot going down the road, its likely air is just bypassing the Rad as an static object to go around, you need the sides sealed, and a shroud. 160 is too cold, its just going to stay open and not let the Rad do its job. Removing the state has the same effect. Occasionally you can drill a few holes around the stat to help flow when closed.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:35 PM
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i did have it cooling with my initial timing set at 8 degrees but the Carb would dump fuel because the throttle plates were open to far. First time I saw the needle go in the other direction. Then it was only over heating at an idle. The only other thing that may of helped that day I was driving with my hood off.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:35 PM
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Is the rad a dimple rad? is it big enough? If the hood off works then the engine bay is too restricted.Is the grill blocking air flow?
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Xchevy II View Post
I have recently built a 383 but I can't get it to run cool the highest I've seen it was 235 and shut it down but I know it will keep climbing. The cooling system is all new, alu radiator, high flow pump, electric fan 14" 2500cfm. I think it is either timming, Carb, or my cam.
Engine
Gen 1 4 boltmain block
Scat rotating assembly with KB +13 CC pistons 10:1 CR
intake-edelbrock rpm air gap
Cam- big muther thumper(may have been a big mistake) flat tappet
Comp alu roller tip rockers
Heads 210 CC intake runners 2.1 intake 1.6 exhaust 62 CC chamber
MSD street fire dist with MSD box
Carb- edelbrock 1406 650 cfm( my other mistake)
Trans- 2 speed powerglide with shift kit, manual valve body, and 3500 stall
Rear - 4:11 gear with posi lock
Fender well headers to 3 1/2 inch Magna flow mufflers (can't sneak up on anybody)

Initial timing was set at 22 so I could keep throtle plates closed enough to run on idle circuit. Limited my mech advance to 14 and have a total of 36 at 3000 rpm. I'm not sure what else to try it would be nice to drive the car more than 10 miles before it starts overheating.
If you want to run some advance run about 28-30 initial and a total of about 35 degrees. More initial timing may solve your problem entirely, this is a very common problem for street driven cars with big cams- not enough timing causes more over heating than too much. Too much causes detonation, so while you're tuning it be sure to run on the best gas you can find.

Also, WHY ** DID YOU GO AS RICH AS POSSIBLE? Go back to your stock settings and go with 2 steps lighter springs (I forget the color off hand) and maybe one step richer on the rods.

Last edited by 68NovaSS; 06-27-2013 at 05:52 PM. Reason: Profanity
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Xchevy II View Post
I have recently built a 383 but I can't get it to run cool the highest I've seen it was 235 and shut it down but I know it will keep climbing. The cooling system is all new, alu radiator, high flow pump, electric fan 14" 2500cfm. I think it is either timming, Carb, or my cam.
Engine
Gen 1 4 boltmain block
Scat rotating assembly with KB +13 CC pistons 10:1 CR
intake-edelbrock rpm air gap
Cam- big muther thumper(may have been a big mistake) flat tappet
Comp alu roller tip rockers
Heads 210 CC intake runners 2.1 intake 1.6 exhaust 62 CC chamber
MSD street fire dist with MSD box
Carb- edelbrock 1406 650 cfm( my other mistake)
Trans- 2 speed powerglide with shift kit, manual valve body, and 3500 stall
Rear - 4:11 gear with posi lock
Fender well headers to 3 1/2 inch Magna flow mufflers (can't sneak up on anybody)

Initial timing was set at 22 so I could keep throtle plates closed enough to run on idle circuit. Limited my mech advance to 14 and have a total of 36 at 3000 rpm. I'm not sure what else to try it would be nice to drive the car more than 10 miles before it starts overheating.
In aluminum, this size engine needs about 500 square inches of radiator core area with at least 2 rows of 1 inch tubes, 2 rows of 1-1/4 tubes would be better. The fact that it just keeps getting hotter as you drive it at normal speeds shows it needs more radiator capacity.

High output pumps are waste of good money. They are intended to run on high RPM engines using underdrive pulleys. The poiot of them is not more flow but adaquate flow for lengthy periods os sustained high RPM. In actuality the real problem is with convention pulley ratios and conventional pumps therer is too much flow at high RPM, this wastes power and causes cavitaion while not improving cooling. they're just not advertised that way because that truly needy market is too small.

You shouldn't shut down an overheating engine, now there is no circulation and the temps just keep climbing in the typcial hot spots, exhaust valve seats, guides and sparkplug bosses. This leads to cracking the casting if iron, or cracking the seat inserts if aluminum. The only situation for shutting down an overheating engine is when there is coolant loss. You should carry a garden sprayer of water that can be directed into the radiator core with the engine idling too pull the temps down to normal before shutting it down.

Bogie
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Old 06-26-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by oldbogie View Post
In aluminum, this size engine needs about 500 square inches of radiator core area with at least 2 rows of 1 inch tubes, 2 rows of 1-1/4 tubes would be better. The fact that it just keeps getting hotter as you drive it at normal speeds shows it needs more radiator capacity.

High output pumps are waste of good money. They are intended to run on high RPM engines using underdrive pulleys. The poiot of them is not more flow but adaquate flow for lengthy periods os sustained high RPM. In actuality the real problem is with convention pulley ratios and conventional pumps therer is too much flow at high RPM, this wastes power and causes cavitaion while not improving cooling. they're just not advertised that way because that truly needy market is too small.

You shouldn't shut down an overheating engine, now there is no circulation and the temps just keep climbing in the typcial hot spots, exhaust valve seats, guides and sparkplug bosses. This leads to cracking the casting if iron, or cracking the seat inserts if aluminum. The only situation for shutting down an overheating engine is when there is coolant loss. You should carry a garden sprayer of water that can be directed into the radiator core with the engine idling too pull the temps down to normal before shutting it down.

Bogie
Usually when I shut it down I will leave the fan running to cool the coolant in the radiator. Then let it idle for a few seconds to get the coolant moving again, I keep doing this process until Im back to a normal temp about 170.
the radiator is aluminum with 2 1"cores down flow. measures 22x16 for a total 352sginches. this was a direct replacement for the orginal radiator made to run the large cu in motors. per advertisment. If I go with a larger radiator the support would half to be cut out to allow air flow across the surface. The fan is an electric s blade 16" I mounted directly on the radiator constantly running. The funny thing was last year I could run the car and it would over heat while driving, but if I pulled over and let it idle it would cool off. I ended up changing the heads over the winter from cast iron to aluminum. 76cc chamber to 62 cc Chamber. Pulled the whole motor apart. removed the rotating assembly and had it rebalanced to the new pistons, I had -4 domed they were change to +13 dished to keep th CR at 10:1. This year I cant get it to run cool except that one day i set my timing to at 36 at 3000rpm and drove with the hood off, but the carb dumping to much fuel at a idle. Thottle plates were open to far, the metering springs have been changed to the weakest spring from day one. For the carb to work with the cam I have I have to increase my intial timming so I get no vacuum on the ported vacuum this puts my initial around 24 degrees. Idles great full control of the idle set screws. Know i have a total timing of 60, I limited the dist to about 12-14 degrees so i only get a total of 36 at 3000. If not the dist would be sparking the cylinder a little more than half way thru the compression stroke and exposing my cylinder walls to the flame instead of my combustion chamber. Every since I changed the heads I really had the problem. It was bad last year but not this bad.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:34 AM
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I once made the big mistake of having the comp big mutha thumper roller cam version and I had nothing but problems trying to get this thing to run well with my setup. I have dart iron eagle 200cc heads fully ported with a dual plane high rise intake etc and this cam sucked big time. It sounded good but is very picky for trying to tune a carb and timing with. That cam has a lot of overlap and you may need to lock out your timing. Fbird is the expert on camshaft and timing on here as he has many builds under his belt and I am sure he will chime in here. I finally got rid of mine and installed a lunati 231/239 @50 roller voodoo cam and have never been happier and is a lot more easy to tame and tune. I had the over heating problem similar to yours and it was a timing issue and giving it what it wanted helped out a ton. Mine is in a s10 so its a challenge to keep cool but does decent for the most part. Good luck for the most part your build is awesome!
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Old 06-27-2013, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by eric32 View Post
I once made the big mistake of having the comp big mutha thumper roller cam version and I had nothing but problems trying to get this thing to run well with my setup. I have dart iron eagle 200cc heads fully ported with a dual plane high rise intake etc and this cam sucked big time. It sounded good but is very picky for trying to tune a carb and timing with. That cam has a lot of overlap and you may need to lock out your timing. Fbird is the expert on camshaft and timing on here as he has many builds under his belt and I am sure he will chime in here. I finally got rid of mine and installed a lunati 231/239 @50 roller voodoo cam and have never been happier and is a lot more easy to tame and tune. I had the over heating problem similar to yours and it was a timing issue and giving it what it wanted helped out a ton. Mine is in a s10 so its a challenge to keep cool but does decent for the most part. Good luck for the most part your build is awesome!
Hey Eric, not to thread jack much but do you run a cowl hood on yours? Will it help keep it cool? I have a huge Howe alum Rad in mine, twin shrouded elec fans. Ones on a stat that comes on at 195, the other is just on a switch, I find that any kinda hot day, or hard driving it hits 200-210 and stays there unless I'm running the second fan, so I have started just leaving the second one runing but I'm concerned with alt life between my pump, msd, stereo, and one fan, sometimes 2 fans runnimg. I can pick up a 2" or 4" cowl hood for next to nothing if it would help cool it down.
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:30 PM
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Here is an update. I changed the cam out to something a lot less radical, Voodoo 272, I called for different cam manufactures told them how the car was set up and what the motor had they pretty much recommended the same type of cam. I had a friend make a stainless steel shroud for my electric fan. It pretty much seals the back of the radiator, pulls a lot more air. I reinstalled my thermostat (160) and drilled a few holes in it as suggested. The temp still get up to about 225-230 while driving, but when I get to a light or have to sit the temp will come back down to about 200. A friend suggested to hook up my bypass hose from the pump to the intake, since i have no heater core. Not sure what this will do most motors ive seen have them or dont. The other thing is even after the car has been sitting for hours and the block is cool the top radiator tank is very hot. I think its doing better but would like to see it not go above 210.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:59 PM
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If you're overheating while you're moving then put an air dam under your rad. Similiar to ones on camaro's. Make sure you have an open clear area behind the rad down to the under side of the car. The air dam creates a low pressure area behind it allowing the high pressure air to flow thru the rad and out below the car.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:38 AM
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why not post some pictures
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