390 FE Blown head gasket: - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2006, 06:49 PM
Thinking Man's Avatar
Let me think about that...
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Age: 67
Posts: 72
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
390 FE Blown head gasket:

I'm looking for a few good ideas on what would cause the head gasket to fail, twice, on a newly rebuilt 390.

When the head gasket failed the first time, I pulled the head and found the thin metal ring on the head gasket that surrounds the combustion chamber on #4 was pushed into the combustion chamber. I could see slight marks on the piston and on the quinch area of the combustion chamber where the metal ring had been hitting. I installed a new head gasket, reassembeled the engine, and it failed again today. It will start and idle fine but, when I run the RPM's up, it lets go.

I did check to deck and the head to make sure they weren't warped. They both look okay.

Any ideas?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	img_1646.JPG
Views:	112
Size:	92.0 KB
ID:	17274  

    Advertisement

Last edited by Thinking Man; 12-30-2006 at 07:50 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2006, 07:30 PM
327NUT's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: So. Utah
Age: 67
Posts: 3,198
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 63 Times in 57 Posts
If I read your post correctly, the piston is hitting the head gasket? If thats it then it sounds like the piston is coming up out of the hole (positive deck height).....and you have the wrong head gasket. I know this is far fetched but during the rebuild was that cyl. sleeved and overbored more than the others and someone installed a different pin height piston on #4 causing it to come out of the hole hitting the stock bore head gasket??? And are you sure the block was decked and heads surfaced? Ok, I said it was far fetched!

Last edited by 327NUT; 12-30-2006 at 07:45 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2006, 07:56 PM
Thinking Man's Avatar
Let me think about that...
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Age: 67
Posts: 72
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
327Nut,

I just edited my post with a picture of the head gasket. My machince shop allowed as how they checked the deck before boring the block .030 over, the heads were surfaced (stock castings) during the valve job. I checked them both with the edge of a squrare but no guarantees there. Check the photo and you'll see what I mean by the piston hitting the gasket.

Dale
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:05 PM
327NUT's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: So. Utah
Age: 67
Posts: 3,198
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 63 Times in 57 Posts
Ok, then I would say a valve hit it..........somehow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2006, 08:11 PM
Thinking Man's Avatar
Let me think about that...
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Age: 67
Posts: 72
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
could be...

you're looking at the first gasket that failed. I haven't pulled it down since the second one failed. I'm going to give it a break 'til Monday. Hopefully it's blown in the same place and I can narrow the search to number four hole.

Dale
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 01:50 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What manufacturer of overhaul gasket set are you using?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 06:54 AM
Thinking Man's Avatar
Let me think about that...
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Age: 67
Posts: 72
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Fel-Pro Blue Stripe - Both times.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 07:37 AM
onebadmerc's Avatar
I need a bucket of arc sparks
 
Last wiki edit: How to identify SB Ford heads without pulling them
Last journal entry: trunk floor
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Florence Colorado
Age: 43
Posts: 901
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Could the machine shop mixed up a 352 rod in your 390 when they did the machine work?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 07:43 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking Man

Fel-Pro Blue Stripe - Both times.
FIRST-CLASS!

I am wondering if maybe FEL-PRO offers the gasket in an overbore size, i.e. a slightly larger opening for a .030 over?

The piston might just have kissed the gasket causing the failure?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 08:42 AM
Thinking Man's Avatar
Let me think about that...
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Age: 67
Posts: 72
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As to the engine having the wrong rod - no chance. I did change this engine from a 360 to a .030 over 390. I sent the parts to the machine shop to have machine work done but, then, retrieved all the parts and assembled the engine myself. Now, I'm not saying that I couldn't have screwed up but, I did check everything three or four times as it went together.

.030 over head gasket. I'm going to check on that. Everything is closed for the holidays. I will get with my local NAPA dude sometime Tuesday.

I will also be pulling the top off the engine tomorrow. I just had to give it a break for a couple days. When I get it pulled down I will post the result with a picture or two.

Dale
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 09:09 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking Man

.030 over head gasket. I'm going to check on that. Everything is closed for the holidays. I will get with my local NAPA dude sometime Tuesday.
If they don't list an O/S, see if the service replacement part for the 406/428 is the same. They have to take bore sizes into consideration.

WORST CASE SCENARIO (In My Mind )-

Possibly that cylinder was not bored square to the main saddle?

There has to be a fairly obvious reason for the contact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 09:29 AM
Thinking Man's Avatar
Let me think about that...
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Age: 67
Posts: 72
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I concur on the fairly obvious reason. When you look at the photo it appears that the ring was blown into the combustion chamber?! My son's theory was that the cooling system might have over pressurized... I seriously doubt that. Seems like something else would go before the head gasket.

The obvious thing would be something not true/warped and it's not clamping the gasket. I'll KNOW that tomorrow

Stock listed gasket is 4.400" with no oversize listed. A 429 stock gasket lists at 4.500" I'm thinking a tenth of an inch might be a tad large.

Summit lists a Perma Torque/Blue with steel wire ring for $32.88 each. If I had a high power 390 I would consider those. But, my engine is pretty mild. Under 10.5:1 compression.

I did put oversize stainless valves, hardened seats, and played around with a little gasket matching and bowl polishing on the heads. Like I said, I may have goofed something. I will know more tomorrow and I'll let you guys know what I find after I close down the shop and wash my hands.

Thanks for the ideas so far,

Dale
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 09:35 AM
FordMan1951's Avatar
Ford Man to the bone!!!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock,TX
Age: 63
Posts: 112
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My first thought was the gasket looks like it was SUCKED into the hole. Check the cam intake lobe. Just a thought.
Edit: or maybe you cranked it with the exhaust rocker set but not the intake.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 09:46 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordMan1951

My first thought was the gasket looks like it was SUCKED into the hole.
Yeah, it had to go downwards as there is really no wheres for it to go upwards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2006, 09:56 AM
Thinking Man's Avatar
Let me think about that...
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Biloxi, Mississippi
Age: 67
Posts: 72
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
FordMan1951,

You may have something there. I believe I had a lifter in that #4 hole that didn't want to just drop in. I had to put some pressure on it to shove it in the hole. I rolled the engine by hand while it was on the engine stand and everything seemed to be okay. But, it may have wiped that intake lobe off the cam. When I did the first teardown I checked to see if the lifter was stuck. All 16 of them would pull out of their holes with a small magnet and drop back in. I didn't roll the engine again to see if the intake valve was opening and closing as it should.

I could have wiped the cam out on the first start-up. And, if it was wiped out then, it would be fubar on the second start-up.

So, before I tear anything apart, I will take the valve covers off, remove the plugs, roll the engine by hand, and check see that everything is working as it should.

Looks like I might be in the market for a new and better cam.

Flatheads Forever,

Dale
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thick head gasket to lower compression? Warrant Engine 16 09-20-2006 07:43 AM
Bad Head Gasket? ........Pitted Valves. white66coupe Engine 1 08-03-2006 07:50 PM
V6 head gasket oil leak 1935 Ford Steve Engine 2 06-15-2006 11:31 AM
Blown head gasket ap0001 Engine 5 08-19-2004 05:34 PM
blown head gasket nick Engine 2 10-24-2001 01:22 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.