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Old 11-30-2005, 12:26 PM
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390fe to 428fe

hey guys i've been reading about swapping the crank shaft from a 428 into my 390 (i'd bore it .030 too) and it'd make a 406 stroker or something like that well i'm gona have about 2k$ in the next month so ive got some money to spend on this i was wondering what all would be needed and how much would it cost. so far i'm figuring

pre owned crank (428)

pre owned/new rods (don't know what size to get could sombody help me with this)

new forged pistons w/ chromoly rings (about 12.5:1 compression)

new ARP bolts

new bearings

and i think that's all i'd need but i'm not sure that's why i'm asking you i was also wondering about how much money it would cost

and another thing i was wondering about was about how much horsepower would this add

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Old 11-30-2005, 04:18 PM
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I`m not a ford guy, so I couldn`t even tell you if it can be did or not. But I did the math, it comes out to 416 cubic inches, Honestly, I don`t see why not build a 428 to start with, you`d come out cheaper, and the engine would make more power, it seems pointless to build a stroker engine and have less cubic inches for more money when you could build the bigger engine of the same family line and make more power for less money. You didn`t say what this would be used for, street, race, etc. But if it`s for street, 12:1 compression won`t cut it on 93 octane pump gas, highest ratio you`d be able to get away with would be around 9.5:1. For race or street with 12:1 compression you`ll be looking at race gas, which comes in around $7 a gallon.
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Old 11-30-2005, 05:11 PM
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I run 10.5:1 on pump gas. 11:1 could be done with iron heads, or 12:1 with alumiinum, just don't forget to get a HUGE cam along with a LSA of about 116 to bleed your cranking pressure to around 170psi and give you a decent idle.
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Old 11-30-2005, 06:18 PM
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alright so it looks like i'm more at like 10-11:1 compression what i want is a car that will burn those newer f-bodys that have a few mods on them, the reason i don't want to buy a 428 and put my mods on it is my car has the original block in it and i'd like to keep it that way, i'm looking for more torque and hp and want to spend as little as possible so i'm skimping on the bore of the motor because it'd B more expensive to bore it out more to make it a 428 (i think i've never had a motor bored before)
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Old 11-30-2005, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
I run 10.5:1 on pump gas. 11:1 could be done with iron heads, or 12:1 with alumiinum, just don't forget to get a HUGE cam along with a LSA of about 116 to bleed your cranking pressure to around 170psi and give you a decent idle.
LSA determines overlap, not cranking pressure.
Cranking pressure is determined by static compression ratio and the intake closing point of the cam lobe.
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Old 11-30-2005, 07:05 PM
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it's in here somewhere.....


main reason not to go 428 is the block required. the 4.05 bore blocks are plentiful, and like said will get 416 easy. one in a few will bore to 4.13 but not many. you need the short rods. can't recall the length off the top of my head. 360 rods will not work. check out that search, theres a gob of knowledge there.
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:51 PM
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Crazy larry pretty much has you covered but if you have any other specific questions you might wanna head over to http://www.fordfe.com the guys over there do nothing but FE engines.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy larry
it's in here somewhere.....


main reason not to go 428 is the block required. the 4.05 bore blocks are plentiful, and like said will get 416 easy. one in a few will bore to 4.13 but not many. you need the short rods. can't recall the length off the top of my head. 360 rods will not work. check out that search, theres a gob of knowledge there.
330 thru 361 used 6.540" rods, 389 thru 428 used 6.489" rods.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
LSA determines overlap, not cranking pressure.
Cranking pressure is determined by static compression ratio and the intake closing point of the cam lobe.
and overlap determines cranking pressure...

the more overlap the LESS pressure..... both valves are open at the same time.......

Last edited by xntrik; 11-30-2005 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:37 PM
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thanks xntrik
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:42 PM
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Essentially you are building a 410 Mercury.... + .030.

You will need all the related items for the 428 crankshaft conversion, as well as rods that will stand the anticipated HP and RPM. 410/428 shafts are EXTERNALLY balanced.

If you have decent DIY head porting and stick with proven combinations you might be able to build a stock head, stock type 410+ for $ 2000 that will do about 1 hp per cube with reasonable street characteristics IF you are pretty lucky AND good at swap meet tactics.

Remember your Bird is very heavy...... so you need gut busting mid range torque, not 6000 rpm. If you are lucky, with gears, it will run mid 14s.

Last edited by xntrik; 11-30-2005 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
and overlap determines cranking pressure...

the more overlap the LESS pressure..... both valves are open at the same time.......

pushed the wrong button so reposted here.

so tech, i think the way you stated it # 5 that you are incorrect.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
I run 10.5:1 on pump gas. 11:1 could be done with iron heads, or 12:1 with alumiinum, just don't forget to get a HUGE cam along with a LSA of about 116 to bleed your cranking pressure to around 170psi and give you a decent idle.
a 410 would like 108* separation..... that would be 16* more overlap than 116... and a lot less cranking compression with a lot less duration.

He needs low-midrange power, not rpm.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
and overlap determines cranking pressure...

the more overlap the LESS pressure..... both valves are open at the same time.......
"both valves are open at the same time"....

Not on the compression stroke.

The exhaust opens at the end of the power stroke and remains open into the beginning of the intake stroke. The intake opens at the end of the exhaust stroke. There is no compression being made in the cylinder during the overlap period when both valves are open. Compression can't begin until the intake closes and by that time, the overlap period has been over for roughly 180 degrees (when the exhaust valve closed).

Again, cylinder pressure is determined by static compression ratio and intake closing point, not overlap.

Last edited by techinspector1; 11-30-2005 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
"both valves are open at the same time"....

Not on the compression stroke.

The exhaust opens at the end of the power stroke and remains open into the beginning of the intake stroke. The intake opens at the end of the exhaust stroke. There is no compression being made in the cylinder during the overlap period when both valves are open. Compression can't begin until the intake closes and by that time, the overlap period has been over for roughly 180 degrees (when the exhaust valve closed).

Again, cylinder pressure is determined by static compression ratio and intake closing point, not overlap.
overlap makes the compression stroke shorter...... = less pressure
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