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Old 09-07-2009, 03:47 PM
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4 bar & panhard

Put a four bar set up under my 37 ford. Can I get by without using a panhard bar.

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Old 09-07-2009, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbart
Put a four bar set up under my 37 ford. Can I get by without using a panhard bar.
No... but you can put a track locater.. You have to have something to keep the axle from moving side to side..

You will need to use a panhard bar,or a track Locater,or a watts link..You do have to use one...
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbart
Put a four bar set up under my 37 ford. Can I get by without using a panhard bar.
Maybe.

Assuming you are referring to the rear suspension the following would be true.

If you have a parallel 4-bar setup then you will need a panhard bar or something similar as suggested by New Interiors. This would be true also for non-parallel 4-bar setups that are in line with the frame rails.

If you are running a triangulated system with four bars then you will not need anything additional.

Front suspension will usually use parallel bars when going to the 4-bar setup. This will require either a panhard bar or you could run a solid spring mount on one side to prevent/reduce side to side movement.

Last edited by Frisco; 09-07-2009 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisco

If you are running a triangulated system with four bars then you will not need anything additional.

Thanks for bring this up Frisco... I should of said something about this... I guess my head's in my A** today..
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
Thanks for bring this up Frisco... I should of said something about this... I guess my head's in my A** today..
Not so NEW INTERIORS! You posted what I first thought of. It was only after I thought about it for a minute or so that I realized that was not the only answer. The picture you posted is an excellent example of using a track locater.

Below is a picture of a triangulated 4 bar setup.
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Old 09-07-2009, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisco

Below is a picture of a triangulated 4 bar setup.
Yes.. I know about that set up... Just didn't think about it at the time I was answering... Thanks for waking me up....
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Old 09-08-2009, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbart
Put a four bar set up under my 37 ford. Can I get by without using a panhard bar.
Just curious: Did you really mean four bar (parallel link arrangement) or four link (adjustable to non-parallel)? If it is truly a 4bar, did you install the bars parallel to the ground (which will result in excessive squat when accelerating forward) or did you angle them up from the rear?
http://www.racetec.cc/shope
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Old 09-08-2009, 08:56 PM
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Hey Billy,
What is your opinion about running a track locater as a lateral locating device on a street car?

Andy
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aosborn
Hey Billy,
What is your opinion about running a track locater as a lateral locating device on a street car?

Andy

Here we go again !!!!
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aosborn
Hey Billy,
What is your opinion about running a track locater as a lateral locating device on a street car?

Andy
A "track locater" is really just another form of the Panhard bar. Incidentally, oval racers used to call Panhard bars "track bars." I suppose those as old as I still do. Anyway, the track locater is used on competition cars simply because there usually isn't a solid bit of frame rail back at the axle housing for a more conventional Panhard. This is usually not the case with a street car, so fab whichever is easier.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShope
A "track locater" is really just another form of the Panhard bar. Incidentally, oval racers used to call Panhard bars "track bars." I suppose those as old as I still do. Anyway, the track locater is used on competition cars simply because there usually isn't a solid bit of frame rail back at the axle housing for a more conventional Panhard. This is usually not the case with a street car, so fab whichever is easier.
http://www.racetec.cc/shope

Thank you Mr.Billy...
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:46 AM
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I am building a 31 model A coupe. I bought my rear pro street 4 link from Chris Alston,s Chassisworks. They told me it was perfectly fine to run a track locater on my car on the street. I also called TCI and asked them and they said yes ,they run them on the street all the time. I am not a professional chassis builder but they are and I respect their opinions.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:12 PM
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Thanks for your reply Billy, but while the two styles of linkages perform the same function, they do it in different ways. It is my experience as a chassis builder that when a lateral locater was used in a street car that had cornering loads introduced, binding in the linkage would occur when body roll was present. I also noticed an improvement on rear axle tracking when going from a track locater to a Panhard bar (less "dartiness" or rear axle steering effect). I have found this to be true on more than one occasion. Not to mention the fact that spherical bearings typically used on these bars do not last very long in a dirty street car environment and even less time when water is introduced. In my opinion and others as noted in the links below, a Panhard bar is a far more effective lateral locater on a street driven car, and they are simple to build and install. As one caveat on a Panhard bar, it must be built as long as possible to fully realize the benefits, the kits that attach to the frame and to a bracket on the top of the third member are junk. Not only are they way to short, they also move the roll center of the rear axle way up.

http://www.swracecars.com/Files/pdf/CATpg36.pdf

http://autoweldchassis.com/hardware.ivnu

Andy
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Old 09-09-2009, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aosborn
Thanks for your reply Billy, but while the two styles of linkages perform the same function, they do it in different ways. It is my experience as a chassis builder that when a lateral locater was used in a street car that had cornering loads introduced, binding in the linkage would occur when body roll was present. I also noticed an improvement on rear axle tracking when going from a track locater to a Panhard bar (less "dartiness" or rear axle steering effect). I have found this to be true on more than one occasion. Not to mention the fact that spherical bearings typically used on these bars do not last very long in a dirty street car environment and even less time when water is introduced. In my opinion and others as noted in the links below, a Panhard bar is a far more effective lateral locater on a street driven car, and they are simple to build and install. As one caveat on a Panhard bar, it must be built as long as possible to fully realize the benefits, the kits that attach to the frame and to a bracket on the top of the third member are junk. Not only are they way to short, they also move the roll center of the rear axle way up.

http://www.swracecars.com/Files/pdf/CATpg36.pdf

http://autoweldchassis.com/hardware.ivnu

Andy


Well you can keep useing your panhard bar,,,

You seem to like to show me up,,I think we been down this road before... Maybe you are not setting up your track locater right..
It has been proved that it does work very well on the street..
And I'm sure Chris Alston, and TCI ..should both know what work's and what doesn't by now.. Man you just don't get it do you.... That's what is so great about hot rodding there is ''NO RULES'' You keep on doing what you want,, And I'll keep on doing what work's for me...

Since you are so good at finding Info...Tell me why all the Dennis Taylor car are doing so good... I have a friend that drives his on the street and ''NEVER'' had any trouble like you say they do... I guess your answer will be,, He just lucky !!! YA RIGHT !!!!!

Last edited by NEW INTERIORS; 09-10-2009 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 09-09-2009, 03:44 PM
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I agree that a properly built and installed panhard bar is stronger than a track locater,but most of us are not racing on a road course so a high quality track bar will work just fine.So just like the experts lets just agree to disagree.
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