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Old 09-16-2003, 06:42 PM
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#4 -- Kids on the Board

This discussion is about younger members on the board.

Before we get going, one thing should be made crystal-clear: we have plenty of clever, helpful, respectful, and cool younger members on the board. They are a great asset to our community, and we are stronger and smarter because of their presence. One day, this place will be theirs.

This discussion isn't about those members. This discussion is about younger members in general. We all know what this means, because we were all young once -- maybe even twice .

Part of the problem has been the need to establish a formal disciplinary system, which we're discussing in this thread: http://www.hotrodders.com/t23260.html. It looks like a 3-strike system will be implemented.

The other part of the problem is this: a lot of these younger members are not familiar with the basics of hotrodding. Before the net, many hotrodders had parents who were hotrodders, or a circle of friends who were also hotrodders. Now, we have kids coming in from all over the world, with no previous knowledge or experience whatsoever, who just want to get involved in hotrodding.

Previously, younger hotrodders with no guiding influences were assimilated into the hot rod magazine culture. Now, they land on our doorstep.

We want a place to have in-depth technical discussions with knowledgeable hotrodders, but we're not giving up this opportunity to spread hotrodding to the younger generation like wildfire.

However, a rise in uneducated younger members results in a decline in knowledgeable older members. This is bread-and-butter stuff, and we've seen how it works.

We either need to say that beginner hotrodders aren't welcome here until they learn the basics, or we need to educate them ourselves, and welcome them into our community. Currently, we invite ANYONE interested in hotrodding to the board. We have our Knowledge Base, but it is lacking in beginner information. So, when they ask elementary questions on the board, they get blasted. It's unfair. More importantly, it's inefficient.

My leading idea right now is this: We establish an "introduction to hotrodding" page; with links to basic tech articles, maybe some stuff from HowStuffWorks.com, some words of wisdom from our members, etc. Then, we REQUIRE knowledge of this information BEFORE posting on the board.

Ideas, criticism, input -- let's hear it. Everyone's opinion is welcome.

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Old 09-16-2003, 07:07 PM
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new to rodding page

At least when someone asks a newbie question it will be expected he dosn't really have a clue. That is a VERY good idea Jon. Will make real Trolls more suspect and easier to deal with. Make new guys/n gals who have honest newbie questions a venue to get info without being ragged on. Good going Jon, lets try it right away.




Todd




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Old 09-16-2003, 07:19 PM
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Jon, just an idea here. How about an additional forum for kids new to hotrodding (that aren't trolls but really want to but don't know much about rodding)? You don't have to worry about asking a stupid question and getting flamed cause your new at this and aren't here just to make trouble. They could still use the other forums. But in the young rodders forum they are safe from us thinking they're just trolls. I'd be willing to help young rodders. Shoot I'm still learning myself.

But I'm learning fast!
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Old 09-16-2003, 07:48 PM
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I hope im one of the good young members and not a trouble maker Well my idea is this, have a new hotrodders link like you said Jon, on that link or page have all the basics, THEN before they can become a member, maybe have them take a basic knowledge test? stuff that would be covered in the basic link? Its just a though.
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Old 09-16-2003, 07:50 PM
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I think 38 has a very good idea. A young rodders forum.Maybe it could be set up with a seperate photo album for posting pics of models cars,, custom bikes, go-karts etc. Also have a model car of the month feature. This would kind of seperate the men from the boys so to speak but the older members could visit and give some tips to help out the younger members. There would be all kinds of possibilities. Great idea.

Kevin
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:01 PM
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#1 is there a way to determine how many KB or threads, or pages someone has visited? allthough one could easily circumvent that, if you could make it a requirement to have read "so many" KB pages to post in the REGULAR FORUMS.

#2 make a forum, just for newbie advise questions for anyone to post a Q in. so that peeps lookin for a quick answer won't be denied that opportunity. and we can grill the trolls in the mean time. but only in that forum.

so in order to participate in the rest of the Hotrodder forums, you'd have to at least read so many kb articles, so you'd supposedly have an inkling of how it works, and be able to positively participate all forums. and if you were to achieve posting status, and started trollin', you could be dealt with in a quick 123strike fashion.

kind of like a post count but read page count instead.

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Old 09-16-2003, 08:03 PM
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Role models

Ditto... I have kids all over my shop every day and most of them are budding gear heads .... They ask the crazyest questions and I try to answer them all ... the kids chip in around the shop and sweep floors and buy pizza I love em ....they make me feel young again and when it comes to hopping up your car there is no generation gap ...now thats hotrodding ...except the music thing and the nose ring... well maybe a little Nelly now and then ... If ya take youth and reckless abandon out you just lost 90% of hotrodding ...cuz more of us old guys die everyday and a little more of our craft is lost ... Years from now I dont care what kind of car my boys are hopping up - hell it might be that old B210 twodoor in the field I just hope they are doing it together and telling stories about the good old days back in 2003
Just my 2cents
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:08 PM
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You never stop learning as far as I'm concerned, I'm just a beginner compared to guys that do this kind of thing for a living. It's a great idea...but...just exactly how do you compile a "hotrodding tutorial" from things that have taken place over the last 50 years and mostly from first had experience with some old guy yelling at you to get this tool or that tool. Lets not forget the 600 pds of magazines I've collected over the years and read at least three times.

Perhaps most important is the fact that describing "rodding" lingo is best done with photos of what the term means. A "nosed" grille or a "frenched" taillight is best shown with a picture. These are hotrodding roots, most people have only seen a picture of in some magazine or briefly at a car show. This was a time when "shop" class actually meant you built something not interfacing the laptop to the CPU. Are you going to explain machine shop basics too?

To create such a tutorial means you have to define "hotrodding" so you can describe it. Thats a pretty big task unless you want to compile a list of topics from the existing database, I think that is easily do-able but perhaps not comprehensive or complete.

What do you envision Jon? Two webpages or fifty?
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:30 PM
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A forum for "noobs" to post simple questions I think would be a great idea. I see people getting scoffed alot because they didn't try to search for the answer themselves, because it's so simple. (on other boards as well as this one) I've used this site's search feature, and it does leave a bit to be desired.

I look at the board everyday, but I don't all that often. Maybe if more of us "younger members" did this we wouldn't have many of the problems that we are discussing at the moment.
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Old 09-16-2003, 10:04 PM
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I think there are alot of good ideas here, but just how do you all plan on knowing the age of the members. Like discussed in previous threads there is no good way to verify. I think it is also important to point out that kids are not the only one posting simple questions. Like Chuck said, we are all still learning. I know a good bit about certain aspects of hotrodding, but there are other aspects I have not tackled and am clueless about. I like the idea of a basic tech section of the board. I also think a beginners section might not be a bad idea. It would be a good place for the mods to move the post that seem to clutter all of the other sections of the board.

Chris
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Old 09-16-2003, 10:48 PM
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The special kid forum might work out, but keep in mind that it would be embarrassing for kids to be restricted to posting in that forum, and we would inevitably get some kids who consider themselves to be "regular-forum" posting material, although they would obviously still belong in the kid forums.

Yes, we can track people by how many KB articles and threads that they've read, but they could just quickly click a number of links. We could time their views on each page, and come up with a sort of "preparedness algorithm" that judged how much time they had spent reading info in our community. But...such a system would probably be too complex to reasonably administer.

50 pages sounds about right. We could divide them into categories (Engine, Body-Exterior, etc.), to make them more digestible. Then, it would be, say, 7 articles to read before you could post in the Engine forum. This is pretty reasonable, I think. Too much, and they'll just skip it over. 7 articles can be reasonably read in a few afternoons.

If kids can't immediately tap into the culture and the lingo, that's OK. If they don't know what a flywheel is, we can fix that.
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Old 09-17-2003, 01:42 AM
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A test to get into the site???

My god Jon surely you are not entertaining the idea of a "Studying and a Test" system to get into the BB are you.I mean the articles are enough to detour the young highschool and collage kids but a friggin test ???

I know I dont post here as much as I used to due to my new job but I try to check in daily to keep up on event,and events there have been .

And if I understand this right you want to make young kids do a "article review" and test before they can post on the board???

Let me brake down how badly this will work out:
1.Only "testing" young new people and letting older new people join freely is discrimination.(I can only guess that you were considering testing young people,from the title of the thread.If I'm wrong them my mistake)
2.Even if I needed help on working on my rod,as soon as I saw that I had to study to get into this place I would say "To hell with this place" and find a diffrent rodding site.---this would more than likely be the main problem
3.It might even discurage younger people from starting rodding,because.I would look at this place as a bunch of "old" holier than thou's and automatically asume that most older rodders are not willing to openly except younger rodders in,and go out and buy a civic.

Ok thats three example and if wasnt 3:30 a.m. here I could probably think of more.Yes this would more than likely stop potential trolls,but at the same time are member growth would surly slow to a trickle if not stop for periods of time.If thats what you are aiming for,slowing down if not stopping member joining rates,then go for it.But I know as a young kid after studying all day at school I sure in the hell dont want to study to join a hot rodding board.
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Old 09-17-2003, 04:57 AM
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Jon, I have to agree with Psycho. I really don't like the idea of restricting younger kids or adult newbies to one fourm or making them take a test. Heck I'm in the middle of a class I have to take this week and I hate it. (The final test is going to be tuff) But I do like the idea of a kids fourm, they are the future of hot rodding. There will be alot of kids that would like to show off thier models and stuff. Its a great idea.
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Old 09-17-2003, 05:29 AM
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Jon,
I like the idea of basic fundamental hotrodding articles. I don't think testing would work. These kids are smart anyway, they would find a gouge for the test. Instead of having a "kids" forum, what about a Basic Fundamentals or Beginners Forum? It would be hard to define "kid" for some of us older kids. There are lots of people with limited knowledge on some subject and more on others. I learn from the kids (young Sailors) that work for me on a daily basis. Sometimes the basic questions can be the most thought provoking. Sometimes a little common courtesy and teaching ability can go a long way. Who knows, one of these kids might be the next Troy-curt or Bobcrman. I still say the best place to learn for free is the library and the next is here. I took auto mech for 2 yrs in high school and the basics still kick my behind, guess my mind was on too many other things.
My2cents.
Dutch
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Old 09-17-2003, 06:07 AM
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I like the idea of a new member forum that has basic knowledge in it. Some of these folks (youngsters and oldsters) have never before been involved with cars prior to visiting our little community. I usually do not visit the knowledge base very often, why require a newby to read a certain number of articles prior to being able to to post. Maybe a better idea would be to only start a new discussion in the newby area. None of us know everything and I try to learn something everyday. Knowledge can come from anywhere, even someone who does not realize they have the knowlege. We need the younger hot rodders and they need to be encourged even when they ask a dumb question, that is then our time to teach. Nuff said
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