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4 speed's

6K views 29 replies 15 participants last post by  rj57 
#1 ·
What were some 4 speed tranny made in the early 60 and 70.
 
#5 ·
The rock crusher would be a Muncie. They were called that because the gears would whine. They whined because of the angle at which they were cut. They were more straight cut than the standard Muncie and could take a lot more HP and torque. Very desirable if you are looking to sell, and very strong if you can stand the noise.
 
#8 ·
I've seen a couple on ebay lately. That would be the best bet. Manual transmissions aren't that hard, they are quite simple in design and assembly compared to an automatic. I just did my Sagianw 4-speed in a weekend and that was with doing all the yard work and going waterskiing on Sunday, plus playing with my 3 dogs. It won't take long to take apart and reassemble. What I did, since I didn't have a manual or instructions was take a lot of pictures with my digicam. That way when I went to reassemble it, I could always look at the pics to see how it went back together. I took about 40 or so pics and only had to use a few. You might also look for an exploded diagram. That is really about all you need to reassemble it. I fould one for my trans online and printed it off. Just pinned it up over the workbench and used it as a guide. They look intimidating, but really aren't if you are pretty mechanically minded. If you aren't, then you might want to take it to a shop. I had a shop tell me $150 to rebuild my trans. That's not a bad price if you are really uncomfortable with tearing into it.

Good luck.

Here is a link for you. It's a overhaul manual for a Muncie 4-speed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=7907264242&category=33733&sspagename=WDVW
 
#9 ·
just curious how much PAIN can a fresh saginaw 4 speed take?

I'm going to be running a mild 454 and I definitely want a standard tranny...but the cost of the muncies is just too much. The saginaws are cheap and abundant...just wondering if they will grenade behind a 400+/- HP 454.


thoughts?
 
#10 ·
trans

If you buy a complete rebuild kit from a place like D&L in huntington station NY it will have a print of all the parts on it and is very good at the correct way to put the trans back together. It is a good idea to take pictures, but if the person before you got it wrong then you will get it wrong also. 50 percent of all the muncies i rebuild have the bearing retainer nut on backwards!!!!!

I'll be glad to walk you through it just shoot me a e-mail with any questions you have.

Keith
 
#11 ·
Thanks for the quick replys, guys.
I ordered an overhaul kit from Year One. (haven't received it yet)I'm mainly doing this because it seemed to me that the transmission had some noise that I beleive to be bearing noise. I read somewhere on this forum about the transmission must be in 2nd gear in order to remove and re-install the side cover. I didn't know that, so I got to thinking, "what else don't I know?"
I've never been into a manual transmission, but I think I could figure it out. I just thought an exploded view would be nice.
Thanks again,
Johnny
 
#12 ·
A fresh Saginaw trans can take a bit of PAIN. As long as you don't beat it too much. I also am going to be running around 350+ HP and I still went with a saginaw. I can buy 2 and have a fresh one ready to put in for the cost of a Muncie that needs a rebuild. The prices are just insane, the Saginaws are a good strong transmission. No, not AS strong as a Muncie, but still able to take a beating. If you aren't going to use it for drag racing and take it a little easy on the clutch dumping, it should last quite a while. You don't need to baby it, just understand it's limitations. Also if you have that much HP, then you will probably have trouble getting traction which will be better for the trans. Then the shock in 1st gear won't be as bad. If you are going to make sure you have traction and can launch, then I would go with a better trans. Maybe a Richmond 6-speed?
 
#13 ·
richmond six speed would mean that I'd have to sell my kidneys.

I was talking to my machinist, who also happens to be my old auto teacher yesterday. He said the Saginaw should handle the 454 as long as I'm not too crazy with it, and as long as I'm not running slicks.

He said I should be able to screw around, burn the tires up and whatnot. Which is pretty good news considering you can get a saginaw for super-cheap...could probably get 10 for the cost of 1 muncie.

Learn the ins and outs of the saginaw and have an abundant supply in the even of a failure. =)
 
#14 ·
OK, Guys,
I ordered an overhaul kit from D & L Transmission, after I found out Year One was going to be 2-3 more weeks, after already charging the parts to my card, but that's another story....

I can't figure out how to get the old rear bearing out of the rear bearing spacer...It's got a snap ring with tangs on the ends in a groove around the circumference of the bearing, and the snap ring is in a groove in the bearing retainer, but I can't see how to get the ring out without damaging/destroying it, and absolutely no way to get the new one in without damage.

Somebody please tell me what I'm missing... JA

See picture
 

Attachments

#15 ·
To get it out you have to open the ring up, then slide the bearing out, then pull the ring out. I know it sounds like it won't work, but it does. I tried and tried to sqeeze it closed on my Saginaw, but it wouldn't move. Then I tried to open it and it fell right out. To put it back in, just put the ring in first, then open it up and put the bearing in. Good luck, and keep us informed on your progress.

jmanz69
 
#16 ·
snap ring

jmanz69 is 100 % correct on how to get the rear bearing out.

When you squeeze it open try to get it as far open as you can, like the 2 tangs of the ring against the housing...

Sounds like you are doing ok with it if you got to that point.. How is old larry at D&L?????

Keith
 
#17 · (Edited)
Thanks for the quick replys, guys. I posted my question late last night and then went to bed. It came to like a flash after I laid there for awhile. I'm glad you confirmed my idea. I'll try it out after breakfast.

The tear-down is going OK otherwise. The only other thing that kinda threw me was getting the speedo gear off the shaft. I couldn't fit the shaft (with all the gears and the bearing retainer) into my press, so I had to get some 3/8" threaded rod and make some 10" long bolts to use my bearing puller to get it off the shaft.

Larry was a lot of help, and if I hadn't been able to come up with something, I was going to call him.

Thanks again, JA
 
#18 ·
Saginaw and 305

Sounds to me like a Saginaw might work fine for my rig..I am running a mild 305 small block..I would however need a bell-housing and clutch assembly as I am converting from automatic..any ideas on this part..??

Thanks
 
#19 ·
Almost any bell will bolt to it. You could even get a bell from an 80's camaro/firebird with the hydraulic clutch if you wanted to go that way. Most of the old aluminum bells will bolt up fine. Look around on ebay for one, they go cheap there sometimes.
 
#20 ·
nova

i'm looking for a trany for my 66 nova. the car's drive train is still in the plan/build process but i want to know what i should try to get. the car will be a street strip car and should run 12's and put out 475 at the absolute most. i've been looking at Saginaw's. my question is if anything from the 80's would hold that hp and be as cheap as a Saginaw? also i want to stay with manual and wouldn't mind a five speed or something if there is a bell-housing i can get that will mate to my 350 Sb and the trany. please tell me anything you can about what i should use for this application.
 
#21 ·
4 Speeds

I did my homework and discarded the I dea of using the Saginaw as they were originally built for the 4 cyl Grocery Getters and just will not hold up to a V-8 and some wide tires..

Best conversion one can make is some cash for a Lakewood bell-housing and a Richmond Gear 5 Speed..Running the Richmond Gear 5 speed allows me to retain my 3.08 rear gears and since the Richmond gear has a 3.27 low gear I will still be able to launch this thing OK..While you are at this get a good clutch flywheel and pressure plate..See the thread on the 550 horse clutch...This combo has been done lots of times and works well..Important thing is to have the SFI parts if you contemplate running this thing at the local drag strip..

Cost comparison to other ways...about the same by the time one is done and The Richmond I will probably be using for a long time..

The Nova is a good project and where I would start is with a good cleanup on the undercarriage and chassis..you have some nearly 40 year old tie rod ends and ball joints..Replace those, freshen the bushings with some good poly ones..do the brakes..make everything nice a clean and working..Spray can detailing is fine..

If this is the first buildup for you then I would just go get a Good wrench 350..put on something like an Edelbrock performer manifold and some headers and Isky makes a good cam for these forgot the part number but it is the spec cam we use for 1/4 3/8 mile ovals..

This combo works fine and will be faster than a lot of them out there..and give you a good driveable rig on Saturday nite..



I have tried the cheapo way in the past and it don't work..one will not be happy..Take your time and do some good clean work and it will come out fine

Take Care
 
#22 ·
hotrod66_57,
I've got a freshly rebuilt M-21 and a well worn shifter I would let go of if you want to go that route. The shifter doesn't have the linkage or the chrome stick. It's just the shifter mechanism, but I'll throw it in with the transmission.
I also have a 66 Nova and have rebuilt the original transmission. I bought the other one so the car would still be drivable while the original was down.
Shipping from Texas to Wyoming might be a little high, but it was shipped to me VIA UPS.
Make me an offer if you like.
Johnny
johnnya1945@yahoo.com
 
#23 ·
Saginaw 4-speed pictures, fig. 1 (bottom) is together, fig. 2 is exploded: http://www.chevytrucks.org/tech/overdrive.htm

Saginaw 4-speeds can have one of four different low-gear ratios, 2.54, 2.84, 3.11, & 3.50. For ID info & parts: http://www.dandltransmission.com/saginaw.html

Torque & shock are what kills 4-speeds. Mine's the 3.11 version, & has survived well with a near-stock 350 with a stock 10.4" clutch, 3.08 posi, & 225mm street radials, but I rarely dump the clutch from a dead stop, & NEVER sidestep the clutch pedal.
 
#24 ·
what was the saginaws weak point??? I have a bunch of em and am planning to put one behind a mild 350, I dont plan to beat on it alot, well i hope i dont lol



BTW if the saginaw OD apeals to you, good luck finding one, i found one, but its VERY hard to find, and when you do get ready to pay for it. the one i have i am converting to an 8 speed (4 speed guts with the 3 speed OD tail) :D
 
#26 ·
Now your're Talkng

Richmond Gear T-10 is used in Nextel cup cars and will take some serious horsepower..Comes in a box all done..ready to go..Way to go in a street/drag car..:drool: As far as price is concerned..by the time one finds a suitable trans..gets it rebuilt and ready one will have as much invested as you would to have gotten the Richmond Gear in the first place..

what was the saginaws weak point??? I have a bunch of em and am planning to put one behind a mild 350, I dont plan to beat on it alot, well i hope i dont lol
Saginaw Trans is designed for about 300 hp..Just not built for high horsepower and big sticky tires. Other than that it works fine. Just will not take a beating..least not for long..
 
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