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Old 12-20-2008, 09:33 PM
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400 chevy build up recipe?

being an Olds guy at heart ive started a new Build I inherited a bare 400 chevy block bored .040 So I need to bore it .060 making 412 cubes
It is going into a 1978 chevy 3/4 ton 2WD w/ TH400 w/2000 stall unsure of rear gear ,,yet I am looking for an honest 400-425 hp and somewhere between 450-500 lb.ft.
Here goes;
K&n Airfilter assemby
stock Quadrajet (rebuilt) 750cfm
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Air Gap intake Manifold
GMPP Vortec Heads ( springs good to .550) (64 cc)
Pocket ported (blended Bowls)
.060 over dished9.75-1 CR pistons from Larry's Performance
matching Rings
5.7 Rings From Ebay's Kmj performance
3.75 crank (cast) from kmj performance
compcams hyd flat tappet 268 grind .224,. 230 @50 .477,.480
Summit double timing chain/gasket kit/bearings
1 3/4 headers dumping into 3' collectors running 2 3/4 true dual exhaust no cats
MSD total ignition kit from Summit (Distributor/Super coil/msd 6A ,plug Wires
E3 plugs and Royal purple oil
Is this a good combo? I WILL heed any advice YOU MAY GIVE ME
Im humble enough to listen to other people as you may know something I don't

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Old 12-20-2008, 10:01 PM
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Combo looks good, you should hit your HP goals with that setup... 500ftlbs of torque may be a bit a bit lofty.

One concern - .60 over on a 400 block is pushing it I would say. Make sure to get the machine shops advice on that.

Also- can the quadrajet fit on the air gap? I thought they only accepted square bore carbs?

have fun!
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:23 PM
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I know they are advertised at 9.75:1 but that is with a .038 head gasket and .010 in the hole. Make sure you heed these specs when you build it. If you are zero decked or have a thinner head gasket you might not be able to run it on pump gas (93 octane)
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:35 PM
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You can run 10.5-11.0 on pump gas.

Your horsepower goals are very very modest. You should be able to get that easy. I think you can go with a bit more cam on the intake side maybe something like 230/232 maybe 230/236 on 112* set on about 108*. This is a bigger motor, it can support it.

I betcha it still idles smooth enough to sit in traffic and run the air all day long worst case a little lope.

What are you doing for rockers? 1.5? 1.6?

As mentioned, ask the shop about the block. I'd go no less than .23 on the walls. It can get real dicey after that.
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:39 PM
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point taken on the intake if not i guess ill have to pony up the bread for a square bore. Block casting is 3951511 shop says .060 over is kosher ( I was disheartened to learn it was already bored 40 over and that it was to rusty to hone and we had to bore it in order to rebuild/save it) also will take not on gasket thikness and piston pos. (in hole)
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:44 PM
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sorry prolly using 1.5 roller tips I just chose that cam as It was going in my 3/4 ton truck and would still use it for the occasional haul of firewood/dirt or mulch for the wifey (actually she and my daughter are helping in the restoration of this thing) awesome huh?
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:50 PM
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Well, 1.6 would improve it a bit as it would seem to "wake up" the cam a bit making the attack faster. The ramp will improve and it will be a bit more responsive, and probably good for 10-15 hp.
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Old 12-20-2008, 11:00 PM
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Thanks Jsup
will go for the 1.6 do you think it will still be docile enough to do the occasional hauling/pulling though as the 1.6 is changing the cam to about a .254/.260? and putting it over .500 lift?
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Old 12-21-2008, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boyd1on
Thanks Jsup
will go for the 1.6 do you think it will still be docile enough to do the occasional hauling/pulling though as the 1.6 is changing the cam to about a .254/.260? and putting it over .500 lift?
My thing with the rockers isn't so much the lift but the rate of attack, the ramp.

When towing, and I tow a 5000lb boat, I would think you'd want the attack to be faster. A little more low end. Kick the curve in a little sooner.

.500 lift is nothing today. I'm over 600 lots of people are closing in a .700. Race engines are over 1.0.

A 230 cam in a big 412 motor, yeah, I'd say that's rather meek.

I have a 427 on a 400 block, with a much bigger cam. 240/246 112 seperation set at 108. The 112 seperatoin helps the idle, you may even look at going 114 ish, but not smaller. Here's the idle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw-PnNu7hXo

now granted, I have long tube headers, no cats, and almost no mufflers. The idle however, is rather smooth, even though loud. All things considered. Plus I'm .62X lift, which makes it worse.

With a smaller cam and a full exhaust, and real mufflers I don't think it would be much of a problem. It's really, really, really hard to say for sure, just giving my .02 I think you can pump it up a bit without consequence. I've seen 230 cams in a 383 that idle nice.

The rockers however, I'd definitely look at 1.6/

Last edited by Jsup; 12-21-2008 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 12-21-2008, 07:44 AM
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Here's a carbed vortec headed 355. This gets over 400 HP.
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ams/index.html
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ild/index.html

Maybe some guidelines for you.

Last edited by Jsup; 12-21-2008 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:30 AM
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Thanks J sup you sound like the guy to talk to awesome link thnx much
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Old 12-21-2008, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boyd1on
Thanks J sup you sound like the guy to talk to awesome link thnx much
There's better people here than me I'm sure. I comment on what I think I know. But thanks.

I've been sick since Friday and trapped in the house with the laptop on my lap, so I had lots of time to kill.
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Old 12-21-2008, 10:23 AM
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considering you're putting this in a truck and looking for torque I wouldn't dar run a cam that big. It'd be great in a camaro or something that's meant to go fast, but you need something to haul. I'd go with a smaller cam and about 9.5:1 compression. something around a 220/225 @.050 and a 110LSA with about .500 lift. Going much over .500 with stock vortec's is pointless, not to mention hard on your valvetrain.

Nothing Jsup said is wrong, but I feel this is the wrong application for it. It's not a street/strip car, its a truck. I also wouldn't use the Airgap if you haven't purchased it. Its mostly marketing. It'll hep a slight bit at the track, but it'll also give you cold start problems. A regular RPM would be a cheaper and more sound alternative.

If you're chasing after that 500 ftlb torque number a bigger cam with all the extra race goodies is actually the wrong way to go. And with a truck I'd be more concerned with torque than HP. Though some people like street/strip trucks- you have to make that decesion now otherwise your parts won't match well. I'd pick a power goal and an RPM range. there's no sense in getting a cam with 240's duration if you'll never spin it over 5,000 RPM.


I just looked at your current build sheet. it looks spot on. I'd go with some 1.6 roller rockers and throw away those E3 plugs. They are crap. complete crap. And if you haven't bought your intake yet a Performer manifold would actaully be enough to get you what you want so I'd look for an intake that matches your quadrajet, its a great carb and to me its silly to buy a new carb for an intake that is less than optimal.
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Old 12-21-2008, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
considering you're putting this in a truck and looking for torque I wouldn't dar run a cam that big. It'd be great in a camaro or something that's meant to go fast, but you need something to haul. I'd go with a smaller cam and about 9.5:1 compression. something around a 220/225 @.050 and a 110LSA with about .500 lift. Going much over .500 with stock vortec's is pointless, not to mention hard on your valvetrain.

Nothing Jsup said is wrong, but I feel this is the wrong application for it. It's not a street/strip car, its a truck. I also wouldn't use the Airgap if you haven't purchased it. Its mostly marketing. It'll hep a slight bit at the track, but it'll also give you cold start problems. A regular RPM would be a cheaper and more sound alternative.

If you're chasing after that 500 ftlb torque number a bigger cam with all the extra race goodies is actually the wrong way to go. And with a truck I'd be more concerned with torque than HP. Though some people like street/strip trucks- you have to make that decesion now otherwise your parts won't match well. I'd pick a power goal and an RPM range. there's no sense in getting a cam with 240's duration if you'll never spin it over 5,000 RPM.
In never said 240s duration. I said 230. In a motor that big, I think it would be fine. I really think 220 in that motor is giving up too much. Going to a samller lobe separation, a 110, will push the torque up, that's why I said 114 may be an option. If you take cars running say a 107/108 separation, it's a punch in the chest at 3500RPMs but not much before that. He needs it lower because he's towing. The hardest part of towing, is getting started. As far as developing torque, when you have a bigger cam you have more power, and more torque. You never gain either by going smaller.

On that size motor the operating range will kick about 2500 up. The intake will do more to determine torque qulities. A dual plane square bore with long runners would suit the application just fine, about 750CFM should do the trick. The torque will come from there.

May I add one more comment on the rockers. A flat tappet can't have aggressive ramps like a roller cam, the laws of physics dictate. A bigger ratio will result in a more roller type performance.

Last edited by Jsup; 12-21-2008 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 12-21-2008, 10:49 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsup
In never said 240s duration. I said 230. In a motor that big, I think it would be fine. I really think 220 in that motor is giving up too much. Going to a samller lobe separation, a 110, will push the torque up, that's why I said 114 may be an option. If you take cars running say a 107/108 separation, it's a punch in the chest at 3500RPMs but not much before that. He needs it lower because he's towing. The hardest part of towing, is getting started.

On that size motor the operating range will kick about 2500 up. The intake will do more to determine torque. A dual plane square bore with long runners would suit the application just fine, about 750CFM should do the trick. The torque will come from there.

May I add one more comment on the rockers. A flat tappet can't have aggressive ramps like a roller cam, the laws of physics dictate. A bigger ratio will result in a more roller type performance.
I hate hwne people randomly throw out "the laws of physics dictate" The laws of physics dictate no such things, maybe you could say dynamics or kenetics, or a few other things but it has nothing to do with simple physics... Its just a pet peeve of mine.

/and /i realize you didn't tell him to use a 240's cam but you gave one as an example and I also used 240's as an example to show there comes a point when too much is far from a good thing.

And if you want to lower your torque band widening your LSA IMO is the wrong way to go about it. large durations with a wide LSA is just wasting gas. If you tighten your LSA and lower your durations you'll see better low end torque- it'll also fall flat up top, but again its a truck, anything past 5,000 RPM is useless.

There is nothing wrong with your recomendations and it is a valid option, i feel an engine with more low end torque is better than one with mroe top end power in a truck, but its not up to either of us to decide that. Its up to the builder.

If I thought he as going to be pulling horse trailers or something like that I'd even say go to a 262 with a 108 LSA but for a general purpose truck a 268 seems to be just about right.
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