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Old 06-13-2010, 02:39 PM
4bnbad
 
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400" SBC

Help the old ignorant white boy. I have a running tired 400sbc.I want to hot rod it and install in my 4x4 Tahoe 2 door. I'm poor and on a budget so everything is weighed on the COST Vs. Benefit: basis I was wondering If I bore .30 over currently standard bore, the CI are slightly over 400" & I reuse standard 400 crank and rods, edlebrock performer aluminum heads, OR
there is the SCAT OR EAGLE LONG ROD ROTATING ASSEMBLY THAT WILL RESULT IN 406" BUT WILL COST A BUNCH OF MONEY i FAIL TO SEE THE BENEFIT OF THE EXTRA MONEY.IS MY THINKING STINKING? WHY?

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Old 06-13-2010, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BNBAD
Help the old ignorant white boy. I have a running tired 400sbc.I want to hot rod it and install in my 4x4 Tahoe 2 door. I'm poor and on a budget so everything is weighed on the COST Vs. Benefit: basis I was wondering If I bore .30 over currently standard bore, the CI are slightly over 400" & I reuse standard 400 crank and rods, edlebrock performer aluminum heads, OR
there is the SCAT OR EAGLE LONG ROD ROTATING ASSEMBLY THAT WILL RESULT IN 406" BUT WILL COST A BUNCH OF MONEY i FAIL TO SEE THE BENEFIT OF THE EXTRA MONEY.IS MY THINKING STINKING? WHY?

a 400 bored over .030" with a standard crank makes a 406, either route you take it will be a 406, if you go with the aftermarket crank it is still a 3.75" crank the rods will be 5.7 or 6.0 instead of the 5.65 rods that came in the 400, but you would use a shorter compression heighted piston with the 5.7 rod and an even shorter compression heighted piston with the 6.0 rod. either way you still have a 406.

now for the pro's and cons of doing it both ways: stock crank and rods: (cons) not as capable of as much power, with 5.56 rods your piston selection will be very limited to almost just using rebuilder pistons which will have a shorter compression height on them and you will end up having to have the block decked to make up for the difference, and you will likely have to have the crank turned and use .010" bearings = about 250.00 in extra machine costs. (pros) it will still likely cost less than buying the rotating kit. aftermarket rotating assembly: (cons) it will likely cost more. (pros) it will be stronger, and you will have a much larger variety of pistons to choose from

oh and stay away from edelbrock alm heads, they are a joke. look into DART or RHS for iron heads or look into DART, RHS, Brodix IK's, or AFR's for alm heads
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:06 PM
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You can re-use your stock crank if you want, if in good shape it is strong enough, just regrind it if necessary.

I would replace the rods with decent aftermarket replacements in the 5.7" length, not really any more expensive than a total rebuild w/new bolts of your stock short 5.565" rod, but stronger and gives a better rod/stroke ratio, and makes the piston lighter to boot.

Pick a piston in the correct overbore size, a piston top shape to meet whatever compression ratio goals you have, material(cast or forged) with the correct height to go with the 5.7" rod, and you are set.

No benefit to the Scat kit unless the stock crank is trash or you intend to run a lot of rpm or hp(550-ish HP and 6800+ RPM).

I would use Scat replacement rods however, to get a new rod, longer rod(5.7), new and stronger ARP bolts, and better material than stock rods all in one package.
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
You can re-use your stock crank if you want, if in good shape it is strong enough, just regrind it if necessary.

I would replace the rods with decent aftermarket replacements in the 5.7" length, not really any more expensive than a total rebuild w/new bolts of your stock short 5.565" rod, but stronger and gives a better rod/stroke ratio, and makes the piston lighter to boot.

Pick a piston in the correct overbore size, a piston top shape to meet whatever compression ratio goals you have, material(cast or forged) with the correct height to go with the 5.7" rod, and you are set.

No benefit to the Scat kit unless the stock crank is trash or you intend to run a lot of rpm or hp(550-ish HP and 6800+ RPM).
I would use Scat replacement rods however, to get a new rod, longer rod(5.7), new and stronger ARP bolts, and better material than stock rods all in one package.


i knew after i reread what i wrote that the 5.65 didn't sound right, i think since we dont really deal with the 5.565 400 rods as much that it slipped my mind sorry about that.

about everything else Eric wrote i agree, i dont think that there is a big need for you to go after an aftermarket crank if the stock crank you have is in good shape, and it doesn't sound as if you are trying to make a ton of power with this motor so i think the stock crank would do just fine. and i agree with the 5.7 rods as it will open up the varieity of pistons to choose from, and just like what Eric said buying a new set of scat or Eagle rods with ARP bolt will cost you about the same as having the set you have reconditioned.
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:49 PM
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further clarity on 400sbc

I had a 400 sbc built for my last rod that I still own The gent very bright this was the 2nd 400" he built for me I was in Tucson then. Now retired. Any way
He bored block .30 used scat crank and 6.0 long rods, said this "long rod motor"
would have more torque. So so I'm clear a .30 bore on stock 400= 406"
then how the heck does increasing rod length with same bore still only have 406" C.I.? I appreciate tip on avoiding the edlebrock heads That was where I was heading. What are any advantages of going the long rod motor build vs. say scat crank with 350 chevy rods? thanks for your effort.
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BNBAD
I had a 400 sbc built for my last rod that I still own The gent very bright this was the 2nd 400" he built for me I was in Tucson then. Now retired. Any way
He bored block .30 used scat crank and 6.0 long rods, said this "long rod motor"
would have more torque. So so I'm clear a .30 bore on stock 400= 406"
then how the heck does increasing rod length with same bore still only have 406" C.I.? I appreciate tip on avoiding the edlebrock heads That was where I was heading. What are any advantages of going the long rod motor build vs. say scat crank with 350 chevy rods? thanks for your effort.

i tried to explain that ealier, when you use a longer rod you will have to use a piston with a shorter compression height, the compression height on a piston is the distance from the wrist pin (pin that goes throught the conecting rod and the piston) to the piston crown (top of the piston) so with going to a longer rod you also have to shorten the stack messurement of the piston. the only way to increase cubic inches is to either increase the size of the cylinder bore or to use a longer stroke crank, a longer rod with the same size pistons would only make the piston pop out of the cylinder bores.

using a 6.0 rod in motor that is not intended to make over 550 horsepower will have no real benifit, it will not add any more power to the motor until you start really turning high rpms and making some very serious power. so in your cause and in the case of your other motor is was very likely not needed
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:12 PM
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400sbc

To Navy gent, thanks for clearing that up the 6.0" long rod motor only put out 450HP with a comp full roller extreme energy cam hydraulic roller lifters roller tip rockers, monster aluminum heads from Australia, edlebrock air gap 650 CFM
EDLEBROCK CARB hedman shorty headers, balanced assembly I'd like to do better this time with out exceeding the $10,000 I spent last time. So as I see it a .30m bore, a remanufactured stock 400 crank and rods. balance the assembly
10-1 CR pistons of a cast variety. The 406" long rod motor I have is in a 1965 Falcon sedan delivery, was a flower car for florist shop I made into a A/FX CLONE. It is museum quality, heidt MII front sus. to lose intruding coil spring towers. Thanks for directions I'm forced to spin my own wrenches now due to semi retirement. More fun anyway. Bill
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BNBAD
To Navy gent, thanks for clearing that up the 6.0" long rod motor only put out 450HP with a comp full roller extreme energy cam hydraulic roller lifters roller tip rockers, monster aluminum heads from Australia, edlebrock air gap 650 CFM
EDLEBROCK CARB hedman shorty headers, balanced assembly I'd like to do better this time with out exceeding the $10,000 I spent last time. So as I see it a .30m bore, a remanufactured stock 400 crank and rods. balance the assembly
10-1 CR pistons of a cast variety. The 406" long rod motor I have is in a 1965 Falcon sedan delivery, was a flower car for florist shop I made into a A/FX CLONE. It is museum quality, heidt MII front sus. to lose intruding coil spring towers. Thanks for directions I'm forced to spin my own wrenches now due to semi retirement. More fun anyway. Bill
Between the shorty headers and short intake manifold, you were down an easy 50-60 hp. Use a RPM or Weiand Stealth intake and equal-length, long-tube, 1 3/4" primaries on a 383 or larger.
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BNBAD
To Navy gent, thanks for clearing that up the 6.0" long rod motor only put out 450HP with a comp full roller extreme energy cam hydraulic roller lifters roller tip rockers, monster aluminum heads from Australia, edlebrock air gap 650 CFM
EDLEBROCK CARB hedman shorty headers, balanced assembly I'd like to do better this time with out exceeding the $10,000 I spent last time. So as I see it a .30m bore, a remanufactured stock 400 crank and rods. balance the assembly
10-1 CR pistons of a cast variety. The 406" long rod motor I have is in a 1965 Falcon sedan delivery, was a flower car for florist shop I made into a A/FX CLONE. It is museum quality, heidt MII front sus. to lose intruding coil spring towers. Thanks for directions I'm forced to spin my own wrenches now due to semi retirement. More fun anyway. Bill

i just bolded some things that i found odd, a 650 on a 406 making 450hp not to mention a edelbrock carb

monster heads from Austrailia, WHA, with all the great american head manufactures we have

.30m overbore is wrong it is .030" of an inch

10,000 for a 450hp 406, OOCH, he saw you commin' you could build a whole lot more for a whole lot less


okay i'm done razzin' ya

since you are going after some decent power numbers i would recomend going after the aftermaket rotating assembley, and i would recomend the SCAT 9000 crank with some 4340 rods, and either a set of KB hyper pistons or a set of lower end forged pistons. you dont want to go with a set of cast pistons if you plan to make more than 450hp.

i can tell you this much with a budget of 10,000 you could easily build a stroked 421-434cid sbc with a streetable 550+hp
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:46 PM
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400sbc rebuild

I was employed making good money in those pre depression days. This is today
So the air gap edlebrock is not a happening intake? This took place in 2005
I bought the Ausy heads off Ebay 220cc runners, $900+/- dollars. AFR WERE MUCH MORE THEN Is the demon carb now better than 750 holley DB?
Due to the bastardization of a chevy into a Ford I was unable to find long tube headers to fit unless I went the one of approach. Like all hot rods as I was rounding 3rd base heading for home plate I was running short of money time to be watching the dollars. Best, Bill
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:54 PM
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i still personaly like the holley carbs but BG demon carbs are very similar to the 4150 series carbs. some like the air-gap intake and a lot dont. what is the budget now, and what is the hp goal, ET goal, what is the car, transmission, rear gears, size of tires etc, what rpms are you looking to run. give us this information and we can pratically tell you what to buy
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Old 06-13-2010, 04:55 PM
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What is the largest you can safely stroke a 400SBC?

Let's recall my use, going in my daily driver 1999 Tahoe 2 door 4x4 4L60E
Of course I'll take to the strip just to see what it does. But I don't want to be
scattering parts on the saddle road racing a 16 year old squirrel in a Honda civic
w/coffee can exhaust tip. IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING that you"re looking at a abreviated life span over 420 " on 400 SBC & your thoughts please.
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:13 PM
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you're looking at an abreviated life span for any high performance motor, and i was going off of the 10K buget, cause you could buy a DART little M block and build a nasty SBC stroker.

about the vehicle and trans, the 4L60E is a computer controlled transmission and this will pose major problems witht motor you want to build.

i would advise either going with a different vehicle or finding a 96'-2000 vortec 5.7L and rebuild it into a 383 but keep the EFI and have the computer re-flashed.

i just dont think it will work with the trans, no you could also look into getting a older 700R4, th350, or th400 for this engine
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:20 PM
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safe stroke of 400" sbc?

This is going in a 1999 Tahoe 4x4 2door 4L60E 4 speed OD auto trans 3.73 gears in diff. I was hoping for 450-475 H.P. this is my daily driver. I have a stock running 400 sbc never been apart. Bear with me for a moment. I have the Falcon with pro built 406" with scat rotating assembly long 6.0 rods, Ausy aluminum heads 220 cc runners, 10-1 CR, COMP extreme energy full roller cam & kit hydraulic hedman shorty headers balanced assembly after purchased from SCAT, Edlebrock air gap intake 650 CFM edlebrock carb, HEI. 10-1 cr.
OK this is running great in my back up rod. What would I need to do to this engine to make more than 450HP. My though is, pull this out of falcon and use after once more reworking in my Tahoe and put a mild 350 crate motor in my Falcon. This is just a thought. thanks decisions/ decisions.
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:29 PM
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tAHOE REWORK

I'm sort of partial to my 2 door Tahoe, I live in Hawaii no smog laws here Yes this is true. I'd use a rebuilt 700 R-4 if I was unable to get the electronic trans problems solved. I already own the Falcon with the long rod 406" in it less than 1,000 miles and Tahoe with stock 350 vortec, and an unmolested 400 sbc
so many ways to go, what to do
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