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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2013, 11:56 PM
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The stock heads are really going to choke this 400.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
The stock heads are really going to choke this 400.
I can always upgrade heads at a later date. When I get more cash. Thanks for your input.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2013, 04:28 PM
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Thanks again guys. I may try to get the better pistons and advance the timing along with cutting down the heads and stay with the 274 cam allowing me to upgrade the heads at a later date. You guys are so much help, thanks again.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 02:19 AM
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You had best back up and look at what you are doing.
You sent this motor in to be ball honed deglazed honed for a re-ring and bearing job.
Now you are boring it but not even using the right piston for the job.
You could have honed it at home yourself.

All you are doing is filling the builders pocket with cash.
if you are so cash strapped why are you replaceing the Crane cam CCH296-2 with a near identical comp cam.?

AND still fubaring the compression ratio.???

"rework stock heads" Why invest any money at all in a 882 head. At least find a better stock casting.
He has got to have something better kicking around the shop.

Dish 400piston use a 58-64cc head (ported 305 HO w1.94 valve, vortec, camel back 186, 083 etc)

Flat top piston 400 use a 70-76cc head on a 400. 441-920 487 336 w porting
( "claimer piston")

If the crane cam is in not worn out pristene condition and all lifters have a crown, on the face still, send the comp cam back and reuse the Crane cam with new GM Hyd lifters.

now you can afford to fix the heads up and get a 400 claimer piston
Ther was probabily nothing wrong with your GM 400 crankshaft that a 10-10 regrind would not fix up.
Guess where your high quality GM 400 crank shaft went...

If the Crane CCH-296-2 Cam is worn or any of the old Hyd lifters are now cupped, do not reuse it.
These are good cams.
http://www.cranecams.com/product/car...detail&p=23983
You just need to correct the rest of the motor so it can work.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 08-12-2013 at 02:30 AM.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
You had best back up and look at what you are doing.
You sent this motor in to be ball honed deglazed honed for a re-ring and bearing job.
Now you are boring it but not even using the right piston for the job.
You could have honed it at home yourself.

All you are doing is filling the builders pocket with cash.
if you are so cash strapped why are you replaceing the Crane cam CCH296-2 with a near identical comp cam.?

AND still fubaring the compression ratio.???

"rework stock heads" Why invest any money at all in a 882 head. At least find a better stock casting.
He has got to have something better kicking around the shop.

Dish 400piston use a 58-64cc head (ported 305 HO w1.94 valve, vortec, camel back 186, 083 etc)

Flat top piston 400 use a 70-76cc head on a 400. 441-920 487 336 w porting
( "claimer piston")

If the crane cam is in not worn out pristene condition and all lifters have a crown, on the face still, send the comp cam back and reuse the Crane cam with new GM Hyd lifters.

now you can afford to fix the heads up and get a 400 claimer piston
Ther was probabily nothing wrong with your GM 400 crankshaft that a 10-10 regrind would not fix up.
Guess where your high quality GM 400 crank shaft went...

If the Crane CCH-296-2 Cam is worn or any of the old Hyd lifters are now cupped, do not reuse it.
These are good cams.
H-296-2 Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft for Chevrolet 1957-1987 V-8, 262-400
You just need to correct the rest of the motor so it can work.
You bring up some good points..i had my 400 apart for 6 to 8 years and the cam had some pitting on it,so I was advised not to use it..as for the heads these came with engine and already had the steam holes. and reworking them is costing me nothing as i traded my builder an LS7 corvette engine with a hole in block(which he welded and resleeved 1 cylinder and made a good engine) . Now for the pistons I have to pay for them as it was not in the deal.the first question I asked was about flat top pistons and he told me that would give me too much compression for pump gas,he said it would be like 11 to 1. I have a lot to learn but I know he is not doing it to raise price. he is boring block for free because he told me block was good when I agreed to pay for crankshaft. He told me I could regrind but cost was $120 and I bought a new one for $170. and he agreed to balance it for me. I did not know that the cam I had was close to the one I just purchased. THe pistons are not purchased yet but may be in the next day or so. Any more advice after reading this reply would be appreciated.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:38 AM
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Sounds like homeboy was just guessing. I ran the numbers.

4.145" bore (this is the .020" overbore I think you mentioned)
3.75" stroke
76cc head volume (which is optimistic, factory heads will be larger, but how much he will mill down is anyone's guess)
7cc Flattop pistons with 4valve relief (many are advertised as 5cc but measure 7cc)
.040 squish distance (this is a combination of OEM compression height piston, deck clearance and head gasket thickness). You can go up to .045" but try not to go much higher as detonation is increased.

Those numbers give you a whooping 10.02:1 compression ratio. Which is perfect for the cam.

You can play with the numbers yourself here:
http://www.summitracing.com/popup/ca...ion-calculator
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Surfer View Post
Sounds like homeboy was just guessing. I ran the numbers.

4.145" bore (this is the .020" overbore I think you mentioned)
3.75" stroke
76cc head volume (which is optimistic, factory heads will be larger, but how much he will mill down is anyone's guess)
7cc Flattop pistons with 4valve relief (many are advertised as 5cc but measure 7cc)
.040 squish distance (this is a combination of OEM compression height piston, deck clearance and head gasket thickness). You can go up to .045" but try not to go much higher as detonation is increased.

Those numbers give you a whooping 10.02:1 compression ratio. Which is perfect for the cam.

You can play with the numbers yourself here:
www.summitracing.com/popup/calcsandtools/compression-calculator
ok using the numbers you came up with here. Would that be good for an everyday driver. My 305 gets 15 mph now as it has 234,000 miles on it..do you think I would be comparable..I may make the decision to do flat tops if so. Also builder says he may have to go to .30 over to get more readily availible pistons.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 11:02 AM
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If you are looking for MPG out of a daily driver with an XE274H you need need to look elsewhere. Do you have the proper torque converter (you will need a 2,200+ stall) for this cam. Your 3.42:1 rear end is probably OK (its probably a little on the steep side).

Going to +.030 overbore will increase the compression ratio slightly to 10.06 with those same numbers, nothing to worry about. Get hypereutectic pistons, not the plain old cast aluminum. For your build forged pistons are not needed.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Silver Surfer View Post
If you are looking for MPG out of a daily driver with an XE274H you need need to look elsewhere. Do you have the proper torque converter (you will need a 2,200+ stall) for this cam. Your 3.42:1 rear end is probably OK (its probably a little on the steep side).

Going to +.030 overbore will increase the compression ratio slightly to 10.06 with those same numbers, nothing to worry about. Get hypereutectic pistons, not the plain old cast aluminum. For your build forged pistons are not needed.
Ok I thought 15 was low mileage but I may make a cam change as it seems to be a hotter cam than I thought. (i thought it was mild). I wanted pretty much stock with a little cam, carb and headers. I may even look to 3.23 gear ratio to help out fuel economy with the 700 trans.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 11:39 AM
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Be sure if you get the flat tops to specify a pin hgt of 1.56" & don't get stuck with the 1.54" Rebuilder piston.This is very important unless your block has been decked .020,or,more.If they use the shorter pin hgt,you could be as much as .045 in the hole before you even add a gasket.Your 3:42's IMO will be fine with the 700R4.I have a 3:42 & @ 70 mph,i'm turnin 1850 rpm in 4th.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 11:42 AM
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Be sure if you get the flat tops to specify a pin hgt of 1.56" & don't get stuck with the 1.54" Rebuilder piston.This is very important unless your block has been decked .020,or,more.If they use the shorter pin hgt,you could be as much as .045 in the hole before you even add a gasket.Your 3:42's IMO will be fine with the 700R4.I have a 3:42 & @ 70 mph,i'm turnin 1850 rpm in 4th.
Thanks..what do you think if I stay with the dish pistons and move to a xe268h cam would this be more of peppy daily driver?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 12:22 PM
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not alotta difference between the 268 & 274 from what I see.Either of those would work well with flat tops.i personally don't like dish pistons,@ least not full dish & I wouldn't use a full dish with either of those cams.If I were gonna use the dish piston,i would prolly favor the XE262H.It closes the intake sooner to keep cylinder psi up even with the lower CR of the dish. With dish pistons & either the 268 or 274.i think your DCR is gonna be really low,robbing you of power.With the 274,it was just above 7.5:1.The 268 would only be slightly better. However,with the 7cc flat top & 274,or,268 that Silver used,your DCR comes up to a 8.20:1.Much better.IDK that milage is gonna be much different between any of the 3.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 12:36 PM
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Says "excellent mileage" in the description.

12-230-2 - XTREME Energy
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jokerZ71 View Post
not alotta difference between the 268 & 274 from what I see.Either of those would work well with flat tops.i personally don't like dish pistons,@ least not full dish & I wouldn't use a full dish with either of those cams.If I were gonna use the dish piston,i would prolly favor the XE262H.It closes the intake sooner to keep cylinder psi up even with the lower CR of the dish. With dish pistons & either the 268 or 274.i think your DCR is gonna be really low,robbing you of power.With the 274,it was just above 7.5:1.The 268 would only be slightly better. However,with the 7cc flat top & 274,or,268 that Silver used,your DCR comes up to a 8.20:1.Much better.IDK that milage is gonna be much different between any of the 3.
Ok I decided I want to stay away from a flat tops as I dont want 10 to 1 compression. I feel better with the dished (maybe not full dished). So I need to get the right cam. Is the 262cam you recommended an upgrade from completely stock. If so it may be my cam.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 01:42 PM
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Yep it is definitely an upgrade,but,not radical.As far as gas milage,I never saw a 400 do very well in that area.IMO,the best way to get milage outta your engine is the detail,such as gettin the quench rite,good seal on cylinders,& most of all,a good efficient head that will optimize the burn,give good flow.Those big 76 cc head's poor flow will hurt milage more than anything else.The D dish piston would be a good compromise between a flat top & a full dish.It has a good squish area to aid in a better burn & adds some volume to keep CR down somewhat.Pick your pistons so we know for sure the actual pin hgt,dish volume,etc,then we'll run the #'s thru again to see what you have.W/o knowing the actuals of what your using,we're really only guessing.Get some real #'s on your parts.Actual deck hgt would be nice to.
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