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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2013, 03:36 PM
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781 or 049 heads. However these heads have 120 CC chambers and would kill the compression of a 402. Buying heads to use on a 402 will most likely not work well on a 496. Or the reverse.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:11 PM
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If I had those heads, I'd keep them. They're a great head for a mostly street BBC, regardless of whether it's a 402 or a 454. I would pull both heads and take them to someone who knows what they're doing, and have the ports done to match the one that's already ported.
While it's there I'd have him check the valves to see if they were swapped to SS valves, and hardened seats. If they aren't then I'd have it done, and go to 2.19/1.88 at that time.
I love those heads, and oval port, closed chamber ealy BBC heads are great! If I had them, I wouldn't have purchased the oval port 110cc Edelbrock Performers I just got for my 454 build.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:19 PM
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BBC "Rat" engines

BBC's are fascinating engines. This book is ONE of the latest, Educate yourself and save all the typing on the internet(inject humor)
How to Build Max Performance Chevy Rat Motors: Hot Rodding Big-Block Chevys (S-A Design): Ed Staffel: 9781884089206: Amazon.com: Books How to Build Max Performance Chevy Rat Motors: Hot Rodding Big-Block Chevys (S-A Design): Ed Staffel: 9781884089206: Amazon.com: Books
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:48 PM
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My favorite is:
How to HotRod Big Block Chevys, By Bill Fisher and Bob Waer.

Probably the finest book on BBC engine building I've seen since it came out in 1971. All the info is still very relevent, and proven with actual engine testing.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 454C10 View Post
781 or 049 heads. However these heads have 120 CC chambers and would kill the compression of a 402. Buying heads to use on a 402 will most likely not work well on a 496. Or the reverse.


OK, NOW we are getting somewhere. It's not necessarily the vavles banging into cylinder walls, but the large CC on the 454 stuff. Ok, I see. Well.....you have an opinion on how far my current heads can realistically carry me with my 408? Think if I stab more cam (220-230 range, something in the .550+ range), single plane intake, I could approach 475+ HP with this 408?
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
If I had those heads, I'd keep them. They're a great head for a mostly street BBC, regardless of whether it's a 402 or a 454. I would pull both heads and take them to someone who knows what they're doing, and have the ports done to match the one that's already ported.
While it's there I'd have him check the valves to see if they were swapped to SS valves, and hardened seats. If they aren't then I'd have it done, and go to 2.19/1.88 at that time.
I love those heads, and oval port, closed chamber ealy BBC heads are great! If I had them, I wouldn't have purchased the oval port 110cc Edelbrock Performers I just got for my 454 build.

Well I can GUARANTEE the work that was done on the heads was done right. Sure, they hit some water on one of them, but shi* happens. I have used this machine shop for the last 20+ years (just no BBC stuff), and they are good. In fact, if you guys are familiar with Ford stuff, you may have heard of Marvin Shaw, or Billy Glidden? Marvin's dyno is housed at this machine shop, and Billy used to come by and use it back in the day. USA Racing Engines in the Houston area is the name of the shop, more affectionately known as "The Whop" shop.
Why Randy (their cylinder head guy) hit water, who knows. Maybe they were trying to do something they hadn't done before...no telling. The guys are GOOD though.


So, is there are reason to think I can hit 475-500 on this longblock? Swap out cams to something a tad bit bigger...220? 230 range? .550+ lift? Single plane intake?

I am not so much worried about losing grunt down low, as this motor already has it in abundance. In fact, I would actually like to LOSE some so I can gain it back up top. Off idle, it just blows tires off. Has a 11" Hughes converter, would say in the 2200-2400 stall range from what I have been able to establish on the street. And anything 3/4 or more throttle, off idle, and just blows tires off. Currently running a 285/70/15 BFG. Probaly go bigger meat out back, but she runs out of steam @ 5000RPM..so figure if I can move powerband higher in RPM band, lose a little grunt down low, but gain some meat up top...means for a better hooking machine on the street.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBehavior View Post
BBC's are fascinating engines. This book is ONE of the latest, Educate yourself and save all the typing on the internet(inject humor)
How to Build Max Performance Chevy Rat Motors: Hot Rodding Big-Block Chevys (S-A Design): Ed Staffel: 9781884089206: Amazon.com: Books


Yeah, I am known for my typing long, irrelevant information on the internet. It's just me, what can I say? I don't spend a lot of time in front of computer, but when I am there, I do type.
While I am a BIG fan of reading, I like hearing from the guys that are DOING it, like you guys, ya know?
In fact, last night, I pulled out an OLD Hot Rod mag, from August '87. They have 3 stages of 454 builds...350HP 460HP and 540HP, and I was going over that. The reason I knew to look there was, I ALMOST got into Chevy's back in the late 80's. My Dad, had a '77 Nova he bought new. Car was in roughshape, but he was gonna give it to me. I had planned on dropping a BBC in it, and started reading up a little bit on them, and came across the Hot Rod article (page 32), and then car was totaled. So, I ended up with a 1971 Dodge Challenger, 383 2 barrel (yes, 2 barrel) Big Block Mopar and that is where my Mopar roots started. Turned to Ford camp in mid 90's, LSx stuff early '00's, but never losing any love for my Mopar's and SBF stuff.
In fact, I currently have a Gen III Hemi that is going in my '55 Pontiac, and I have a 414" LSx, 12:1, 260/268 @ .050 .645/.645 112LSA L92 headed, Vic Jr intake going in my late model Camaro. No current SBF stuff, but not for lack of projects abound, LOL!
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
My favorite is:
How to HotRod Big Block Chevys, By Bill Fisher and Bob Waer.

Probably the finest book on BBC engine building I've seen since it came out in 1971. All the info is still very relevent, and proven with actual engine testing.


Thanks for all the info, very helpful.

Guys, I must say, I am very tempted to yank BBC and stab my 414" LSx into my 72. I am trying to keep myself from going that route..it's just I KNOW how much meat and potatoes my 414 carries, and it's a mean SOB. Compression a little bit high for pump gas, but with conservative timing, tickle it with some octane boost, and with the cam bleeding off some cylinder pressure, it will live. Should still make 600+ on conservate tune (made a tad over 650 on engine dyno).
I gotta say, technology has really come a long way, ya know? To think that the heads I currently have on my 414", come stock on a 6.2 Escalade, on a small block, have a 279CC intake runner (yes, you read that right), and flow 320CFM at .650 lift, AS CAST, is downright NUTS. My heads have been ported, and are moving 340 CFM @ .650. They do fall off as you hit .700, but with my cam, no need for any more.
Ok, I am rambling again....


BUt no fear....BBC is staying in the '72. It just LOOKS right in there. So, it stays. I do like this grunt....WOW. Very impressed with TQ down low with this motor.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:28 AM
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The cam you have is very conservative, and makes a lot of lowend grunt/torque. You'll need to go bigger to get to your 475 hp, but it's very possible with those heads and a 402. I'd look at something around 288 duration, with .530"-.540" lift. If you want to keep some grunt then go with a wider LSA around 112-114, and if you want more topend, then go down around 107-108 LSA.
Crane makes a cam that's sold under Summit's brand name, and is 284/284 at .519" lift, 110 LSA. Not sure it will get you to 475 hp, but well over 400hp. For something more radical, and much closer to 475hp try 287/287, with .544" lift, 110 LSA. Probably the limit on what I'd run on the street with the oval port heads.
Both are Crane/Summit cams part #'s SUM-K03062 and SUM-K03052. Since you still have access to the same machine shop, having them port the other head should make those heads work equally, and make equal flow for the larger cams.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:04 PM
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The cam you have is very conservative, and makes a lot of lowend grunt/torque. You'll need to go bigger to get to your 475 hp, but it's very possible with those heads and a 402. I'd look at something around 288 duration, with .530"-.540" lift. If you want to keep some grunt then go with a wider LSA around 112-114, and if you want more topend, then go down around 107-108 LSA.
Crane makes a cam that's sold under Summit's brand name, and is 284/284 at .519" lift, 110 LSA. Not sure it will get you to 475 hp, but well over 400hp. For something more radical, and much closer to 475hp try 287/287, with .544" lift, 110 LSA. Probably the limit on what I'd run on the street with the oval port heads.
Both are Crane/Summit cams part #'s SUM-K03062 and SUM-K03052. Since you still have access to the same machine shop, having them port the other head should make those heads work equally, and make equal flow for the larger cams.

OK, that is what I was thinking, stepping the cam up a couple notches. I also know the valvetrain on this motor is set up right as well. Crane adjustable rockers, 3/8" pushrods, Comp lifters.


OK, so let me ask you this:

Im a big fan, a BIG fan of roller motors...what is involved in making the swap over to a roller cam. Yes, I know...springs, lifters, cam, etc...but Im talking about the lifter hold down.
I know that with this combo a conversion over to a roller, won't gain me any power, not worth mentioning anyways...I am just looking at reliability stand point for my reasoning.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:10 PM
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No real change to the engine at all to go to roller cam. You do need to get the roller lifters designed to retrofit a flat tappet engine to roller. They have tie bars on them so the lifters don't turn.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:26 PM
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A compcam 292h with a 10" 3000 stall should do the trick.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:29 PM
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A compcam 292h with a 10" 3000 stall should do the trick.
Also a great cam choice if you want more top end power!
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:09 AM
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OK, so they make the tie bar lifters, cool. I know in SBF, they have a spider hold down, and on older, non roller motors, you just tap the lifter valley for 2 bolts, and use the factory spider hold down to keep lifters from turning.

Couple more questions while I have you guys:

Are all the 396/402/427/454 same main size?
If they are, I could drop in the 4.00 454 crank, and come up with a 434". But, let me guess...no off the shelf piston for that combo, probably? I am assuming since the 396/402 is the red headed step child...not much in the way of too many off the shelf components like that.
I know, I know....just pick up a 454 block and call it a day. I just try and think outside the box and stay away from mainstream stuff. I like being different.

So, humor me guys....are the mains the same, and in theory, the 4.00 454 crank would work in my block? I just would have to spend big money on pistons. I am assuming same deck height, intake's interchange, so I could use stock 454 crank, stock 454 rods, but spend big money on pistons...doesn't make a whole lot of sense to a whole lot of people, but if you can humor me anyways.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:19 AM
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A compcam 292h with a 10" 3000 stall should do the trick.

Hmmmmmm, sounds tempting....just would like to leave the converter/motor in place right now. I know, can't run to much cam with as low of a stall speed I have right now.

Oh, I got a time slip from previous owner...no dyno, but 1/4 slip.

Went 14.2 @ 102 with a horrible 2.30 60' on the BFG radials (non drag radial). He said he had to soft pedal it (again, as I mentioned, it blows tires off at will) and shifted at 5500.
S0, the MPH is there for a very respectable mid 13 second pass if I can get it to hook, in it's current form and improve that 60'.
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